Sep 20, 2021 Public Safety Committee

I'D LIKE TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION FOR US TO APPROVE THE MEETING MINUTES FOR JULY 19TH, 2021.

[1. Approve the minutes of the July 19, 2021 meeting of the Public Safety Committee.]

UM, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S BEING MOVED BY COUNCIL MEMBER.

OH, WITH A NEW HAIRCUT COUNCIL MEMBER KELLY.

I LIKE IT MOVED BY COUNCIL MEMBER.

KELLY, CAN WE GET A SECOND SECONDED BY COUNCILMAN ? UM, IN WHICH CASE? UH, ALL IN FAVOR OF APPROVING THE MINUTES FROM JULY 19TH, 2021 FOR THE PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE, IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE UNANIMOUS ON THE DAYAS, UH, WITH THE MAYOR OFF.

UM, SECOND

[2. Briefing on Austin Police Department post-protest complaints.]

UP, WE HAVE A BRIEFING ON OUR AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT, POST PROTEST COMPLAINTS.

UM, AND I'M NOT CERTAIN EXACTLY WHO'S PRESENTING THIS INFORMATION.

IT LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE ACM ADRIANO HERE.

AND RAY, ARE YOU GOING TO BE PRESENTING FOR US TODAY? YEAH.

GOOD AFTERNOON.

MAYOR PRO TEM AND COUNCIL MEMBERS FOR THIS AFTERNOON IS A BRIEFINGS FOR THE FIRST ONE YOU HAVE, UH, UH, WE WILL HAVE A FAIR OF MESCALIN OUR DIRECTOR OF OPPOSITE POLICE OVERSIGHT TO MAKE THAT PRESENTATION.

GOOD AFTERNOON.

MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE MIRROR ATTEMPT.

CAN YOU HEAR ME? WE CAN.

MY NAME IS FARAH MUSKET AND I'M THE DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF POLICE OVERSIGHT.

HAPPY TO BE HERE WITH YOU THIS AFTERNOON TO SHARE OUR PRELIMINARY ANALYSIS OF, UM, THE SUMMER PROTESTS FROM 2020.

UM, AND I, I DO WANT TO START OFF, BUT PARTICULARLY SAYING THE INFORMATION THAT I'LL BE SHARING WITH YOU IS PRIMARILY FROM WHEN THE PROTEST BEGAN ON MAY 29TH THROUGH THE END OF NOVEMBER OF 2020.

AND SO AS YOU KNOW, UM, MANY PROTESTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY BEGAN, UM, SHORTLY AFTER THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD ON MAY 25TH, 2020.

UM, WHAT'S UNIQUE, UM, WITH AUSTIN IS THAT IT WAS A MONTH, JUST A MONTH EARLIER FROM THAT DATE.

UM, THERE WERE, UM, PROTESTS, UM, INVOLVING, UM, UM, YOU KNOW, COMMUNITY CONCERNS AROUND THE, UM, THE DEATH OF MICHAEL RAMOS THAT OCCURRED ON APRIL, APRIL 20, 24TH OF 2020.

SO IN, UH, THE PROTEST, UM, THAT OCCURRED, THEY WERE PRIMARILY, UM, ABOUT POLICE REFORM AND, UM, SOCIAL JUSTICE, UM, AND, UM, POLICE BRUTALITY NEXT STEP, NEXT LINE.

SO WE'RE GOING TO GO OVER THE PROTEST COMPLAINTS.

WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT THE PROTEST IN A WHILE, UM, BUT JUST AN OVERVIEW.

UM, THIS WAS CLEARLY UNPRECEDENTED

[00:05:01]

FOR OUR CITY, UM, AND DEFINITELY UNPRECEDENTED FOR THE OFFICE OF POLICE OVERSIGHT.

UM, BECAUSE SHORTLY AFTER MAY 29TH, WE RECEIVED SEVERAL CONTEXTS FROM COMMUNITY MEMBERS, UM, OVER A THOUSAND, UM, WITHIN THE, FOR THAT FIRST MONTH OF THOSE THOUSAND.

AND WHAT I MEAN, CONTACTS ARE INDIVIDUALS THAT CONTACTED THE OFFICE OF CASE OVERSIGHT VIA PHONE EMAIL, OR ONLINE COMPLAINT FORM.

SO THOSE CONTACTS, WE SUBMITTED 308 EXTERNAL COMPLAINTS.

AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT WE CREATE WHAT'S CALLED A NOTICE OF FORMAL COMPLAINT, AND THAT IS SENT TO APDS INTERNAL AFFAIRS DIVISION, WHICH THEN AS WE HOPE WOULD INITIATE A, AN INVESTIGATION, UM, WITH WORKING WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF THE 3 0 8, WE IDENTIFY 106 DUPLICATES.

SO THAT LEFT US WITH 202 EXTERNAL COMPLAINTS THAT WE REQUESTED THE INVESTIGATING OF THAT 202 COMPLAINTS, 27 WERE INVESTIGATED.

EXTERNAL COMPLAINTS WERE INVESTIGATED BY INTERNAL AFFAIRS.

UM, THE DEPARTMENT INITIATED ON ITS OWN 21 INTERNAL COMPLAINTS.

AND AS YOU CAN SEE, EXTERNALS ARE EXTERNAL COMPLAINTS OR COMPLAINTS THAT COME FROM THE COMMUNITY INTERNAL COMPLAINTS OR COMPLAINTS THAT ARE GENERATED BY THE POLICE DEPARTMENT OF THE 21 THAT THEY GENERATED.

THEY INVESTIGATED ALL 21.

NEXT SLIDE.

PLEASE JUST WANT TO GO OVER WITH YOU.

THE COMMON THEMES THAT WE'VE SAW IN THE PROTEST PROTEST COMPLAINTS, MANY OF THEM WERE INVOLVING THE USE OF FORCE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE OSI SPRAY, THE USE OF THE LESS LETHAL CALLS, UM, ALLEGATIONS OF PROTESTERS BEING PUSHED TO THE GROUND.

UM, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE IN THE SPECIAL SESSIONS THAT COUNCIL, UM, CALLS LAST SUMMER, UM, THE HIGH PROFILE CASES, UM, WE'VE RECEIVED COMPLAINTS ABOUT LACK OF DEESCALATION, THE EQUIPMENT AND TACTICS THAT WERE USED DURING THE PROTEST.

AND THEN, UM, COMPLAINTS ABOUT INTERACTION WITH MEDIA, WHERE, UM, OFFICERS ALLEGEDLY POINTED GUNS AT MEMBERS OF THE PRESS.

FROM CONDUCTING THE INVESTIGATION, OUR MAIN RESPONSIBILITY AND OUR ROLE IN MONITORING IS TO ENSURE THAT THE INVESTIGATIONS WERE FAIR AND THOROUGH.

SO WE, UM, WE, UM, SUBMITTED, UM, SEVERAL, UM, OBJECTIONS THROUGHOUT THIS WHOLE PROCESS.

UM, IN AUGUST ON AUGUST 12TH, WE SUBMITTED A LETTER TO THEN CHIEF BRIAN MANLEY, UM, GIVEN THE ENORMITY OF THE COMPLAINTS THAT WE RECEIVED.

UM, WE WERE STARTING TO SEE SOME RED FLAGS AND WE DOCUMENTED THAT AND SENT A LETTER.

I BELIEVE IT WAS AUGUST 12TH, 2020, UM, IN TERMS OF WHAT WE WERE SEEING IN THE REASON WHY WE DID THAT IS BECAUSE WE WANTED TO FLAG THEM EARLY ON AND ADJUST THEM BECAUSE OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, WE ARE LIMITED BY THE 180 DAY RULE, MEANING THAT THE INVESTIGATION IN ANY DISCIPLINE OR RESOLUTION HAS TO OCCUR BY THE 180 DAY.

SO WE FELT LIKE IT WAS OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO FLAG OUR CONCERNS THAT WE SAW PRETTY EARLY ON SO THAT THEY COULD BE ADDRESSED AND WOULD NOT BE IMPACTED, UM, BY WAITING LATER ON IN THE COURSE OF THE INVESTIGATION OR THE COURSE OF THE PROCESS.

UM, AND SO SOME OF THE OBJECTIONS THAT WE MADE TO THE DEPARTMENT INCLUDED THE CATEGORY OF THE THEY CATEGORIES, THE, UM, COMPLAINTS.

AND SO WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS AN INTERNAL PROCESS FOR THIS CATEGORIZATION.

A IS THE MOST SEVERE, POTENTIALLY LEADING TO DISCIPLINE OF TERMINATION AND D IS INEC.

AND ESSENTIALLY SAYING THAT THERE'S NO POLICY VIOLATION, THE VAST MAJORITY, I WOULD PROBABLY SAY CLOSE TO 80, 90% OF THE COMPLAINTS THAT CAME IN FROM COMMUNITY WERE CLASSIFIED AS D OR ADMINISTRATIVE ADMINISTRATIVELY CLOSED.

UM, WE HAD ONGOING ISSUES WITH COOPERATION, UM, BETWEEN THE DEPARTMENT AND OUR STAFF WITH REVIEW AND ACCESS TO INFORMATION, UM, THAT OPO IS, IS, UM, REQUIRED TO SEE AND HAVE SO THAT WE CAN, UH, EXERCISE OUR RESPONSIBILITY OF PROVIDING OVERSIGHT, PARTICULARLY OVER THE INTERNAL AFFAIRS INVESTIGATION.

UM, WE HAD DIFFICULTY WITH GETTING ACCESS TO THE INVESTIGATORY MATERIALS.

UM, WE GENERALLY USE AS PRACTICE SINCE TWO, SINCE PROBABLY 2007, OUR INTERNAL CASE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM, WHERE ALL INFORMATION REGARDING COMPLAINTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ENTERED INTO THAT SYSTEM.

MONTHS LATER, WE LEARNED THAT THE DEPARTMENT HAD A SEPARATE SYSTEM TO, UM, USE, TO TRACK THE PROTEST CASES AND HAVE INFORMATION IN THERE THAT WE WEREN'T REALLY PRIVY TO.

UM, SO THAT BECAME AN ISSUE.

UM, AND THEN WE, WE SAW BIAS IN THE INVESTIGATION AND INVESTIGATOR ASSEMBLIES.

AND THIS IS KEY BECAUSE PART OF OUR, BECAUSE WE CANNOT OR PROHIBITED

[00:10:01]

SO WHEN WE WERE REVIEWING THE, UM, NUMBERS OF THE INVESTIGATIONS IN THE END OF NOVEMBER, AT THAT TIME, THEY WERE 20 EXTERNAL, 21 EXTERNAL INVESTIGATIONS PENDING, AND WE OBJECTED TO 20 OF THE 21.

WE ALSO OBJECTED TO THE DISPOSITIONS.

AND BASICALLY WHAT THAT MEANS IS IF, UM, THE COMPLETED THE OFFICER WAS EXONERATED, OR IF IT WAS UNFOUNDED, WE OBJECTED TO THE MAJORITY OF THOSE.

AND WE ALSO OBJECTED TO THE DISCIPLINE THAT WAS IMPOSED.

I MENTIONED THIS ALREADY, BUT BRINGING IT UP, THAT IT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT IN OUR ROLE OF PROVIDING OVERSIGHT, PARTICULARLY OF AN UNPRECEDENTED DEBT EVENTS, PARTICULARLY OF AN EVENT THAT CAUSED A LOT OF, UM, COMMUNITY OUTRAGE, UM, IN COMMUNITY QUESTIONS.

UM, WE REALLY FELT LIKE IT WAS IMPORTANT THAT WE DOCUMENT OUR CONCERNS EARLY ON ABOUT WHAT WE WERE SEEING WITH THE PROTEST COMPLAINTS.

AND THIS IS AN EXAMPLE, UM, THIS IS POSTED ON OUR WEBSITE.

IT'S BEEN PUBLIC SINCE AUGUST 12TH, UH, ABOUT THE CONCERNS THAT WE HAD WITH, WE IDENTIFIED ABOUT SEVEN CASES IN THIS MEMO THAT WE HAD SOME SERIOUS CONCERNS WITH.

SO JUST WANT TO GO OVER WITH YOU BRIEFLY, SOME OF THE OBJECTIONS AND CONCERNS THAT WE HAD.

SO FOR EXAMPLE, IT IS NOT UNCOMMON FOR A COMPLAINANT NOT TO BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY THE OFFICER THAT MAY HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THE CONDUCT.

AND SO WHEN THE COMPLAINANT DID NOT IDENTIFY THE SUBJECT OFFICER, UM, THOSE COMPLAINTS WERE CLOSED.

UM, THE, IF THE COMPLAINANT, FOR EXAMPLE, UM, WE FOUND A RECURRING THROUGHOUT THE INVESTIGATION OF CATEGORIZING.

THE PROTEST IS RIOTOUS, UM, ACTS RIGHT.

HIS BEHAVIOR.

SO LET ME JUST GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.

AND AGAIN, THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE.

UM, IF, FOR EXAMPLE, THE, A, UH, PROTESTOR WAS SEEN THROWING A WATER BOTTLE, UM, THEN IT WAS DETERMINED BY THE DEPARTMENT BECAUSE THAT COMPLAINANT ENGAGED IN SOME FORM OF QUOTE UNQUOTE RIOTOUS ACT THAT THAT HAD ABSOLVED THEM FROM HIM INVESTIGATING ANY SORT OF, UM, POTENTIAL MISCONDUCT ON THE OFFICER IN THOSE PARTICULAR CASES WERE CLOSED.

UM, IF THE, DURING THIS TIME, AGAIN, THIS WAS UNPRECEDENTED FOR ALL OF US, INCLUDING THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, THEY CREATED A SEPARATE TEAM THAT REVIEWED, I WANT TO SAY ALL OF THE BODY CAM VIDEO FROM THE PROTEST THAT HAPPENED OVER THE SUMMER, IF THAT TEAM REVIEWED IT AND DID NOT SEE ANY SORT OF POLICY VIOLATION, THEN THAT, UM, CASE WAS CLOSED.

AND WE DISAGREED WITH THAT BECAUSE THAT REVIEW DOES NOT REPLACE A FULL INVESTIGATION.

IT'S A DIFFERENT TYPE OF REVIEW.

UM, AND IT IS, IT IS NOT, UM, EQUIVALENT TO AN INTERNAL AFFAIRS INVESTIGATION.

THE SAME IS TRUE OF IF INTERNAL AFFAIRS CONDUCTED WHAT THEY CALL AN INITIAL ASSESSMENT.

IF THEY CONDUCT THEIR INITIAL ASSESSMENT AND DETERMINED THAT THERE WAS NO POLICY VIOLATION, THEN THEY CLOSED THE CASE, UM, AND DETERMINED THAT THERE WAS NO POLICY VIOLATION.

AND WE DISAGREED WITH THAT.

AND THIS IS NOT UNIQUE TO THE PROTESTS CASES.

THIS IS UNIQUE TO THIS, THIS OCCURS WITH ANY FORM OF COMPLAINT THAT COMES THROUGH THE OFFICE OF POLICE OVERSIGHT.

UM, WE DON'T BELIEVE THE INITIAL ASSESSMENT CONDUCTED BY INTERNAL AFFAIRS IS EQUIVALENT TO WHAT SHOULD REPLACE A FULL INVESTIGATION.

STRONGLY THAT THE DEPARTMENT SHOULD INVESTIGATE ALL COMPLAINTS DESPITE WHERE THEY ORIGINATE.

SO WE HAVE, AGAIN, THIS IS OUR PRELIMINARY ANALYSIS, AND I WANT TO EXPLAIN WHY IT'S PRELIMINARY BECAUSE WE, UM, THERE WERE PROTESTS THAT STARTED OBVIOUSLY AT THE END OF MAY, THAT WENT THROUGH THE SUMMER THROUGH THE FALL.

UM, I PERSONALLY SPENT, I THINK ALMOST ALL MY EVENINGS THROUGH THAT THREE, FOUR MONTH PERIOD WATCHING PROTESTS THAT WERE, UM, STREAMED ONLINE.

UM, I FELT IT WAS MY RESPONSIBILITY TO DO SO.

UM, AND SO WE DO HAVE COMPLAINTS THAT, UM, EXTENDED THROUGH MARCH OF THIS YEAR.

AND SO WE STILL NEED TO COMPLETE, UM, THAT ANALYSIS.

AND SO THIS IS WHY I'M FOCUSING MORE SO ON THE COMPLAINTS.

AND MOST OF THE BIGGER COMPLAINTS, THE HIGH PROFILE CASES REALLY STEMMED FROM, UM, PROTESTS THAT OCCURRED FROM MAY 29TH THROUGH THE FIRST TWO WEEKS OF JUNE.

UM, AND THOSE ARE THE ONES DEFINITELY MOST COUNCIL OFFICES WERE CONTACTED ON.

UM, BUT WE LOOKED AT, UM, OBVIOUSLY CITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY HAD, UM, PROTESTS, A LOT OF SIMILARITIES IN TERMS OF POLICE RESPONSE.

AND SO I JUST WANT TO HIGHLIGHT A FEW RECOMMENDATIONS THAT, UM, WE WILL BE MAKING TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

ONE, WE FEEL VERY

[00:15:01]

WE'VE ALREADY POINTED OUT IN THE SECOND SLIDE, THE DISPARITY BETWEEN THE INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL COMPLAINTS THAT ARE INVESTIGATED.

UM, AND WE THINK THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT.

WE'VE TAKEN BIG STRIDES AND OVERSIGHT AS A CITY.

AND PART OF THAT WAS TO INCREASE WHAT WAS INVESTIGATED IN TERMS OF COMPLAINTS THAT COME FROM THE COMMUNITY, NOT TO DECREASE THAT NUMBER.

AND THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT AS WELL.

AND THIS IS CONSISTENT WITH, UM, THE REPORTS THAT HAVE BEEN ISSUED FROM LAW ENFORCEMENT ORGANIZATIONS.

UH, I SPECIFICALLY WANT TO POINT TO THE, UM, ILLINOIS THAT ACTUALLY THE UNITED NATIONS HUMAN RIGHTS, UH, COMMISSION, UM, COMPLETED A REPORT ABOUT GUIDANCE ON LESS LETHAL WEAPONS IN LAW ENFORCEMENT.

UM, AND THE ILLINOIS CHIEFS OF POLICE ISSUED A REPORT IN 2019 ABOUT COD MANAGEMENT.

AND THESE RECOMMENDATIONS ARE CONSISTENT WITH WHAT THEY HAVE PUT IN THEIR REPORT SPECIFICALLY ABOUT ENSURING THAT OFFICER'S NAMES AND BADGE NUMBERS ARE VISIBLE, EVEN WHEN THEY'RE WEARING THE ADDITIONAL TACTICAL EQUIPMENT.

SO YOU WILL FIND THAT, UM, PARTICULARLY WITH THE HEAD GEAR AT THE VERY LEAST, UM, THEIR BADGE NUMBERS SHOULD BE LISTED.

UM, AND THIS IS WHAT WE NOTICED, UM, IN THE, IN THE PROTESTS HERE WHERE THAT WITH THE ADDITIONAL EQUIPMENT OFFICERS WORE, IT COVERED THEIR NAMES AND BADGE NUMBERS.

AND, UM, WE THINK THAT THE DEPARTMENT CAN MAKE SOME INROADS WITH ENSURING THAT AT ALL TIMES THAT OFFICERS NAMES AND BADGE NUMBERS HAVE VISIBLE.

WE ALSO THINK THAT IT IS IMPORTANT, UM, PARTICULARLY WHERE, YOU KNOW, IN STATE CITY OF THE STATE CAPITOL, THERE PROTESTS THAT HAPPEN PRETTY FREQUENTLY THAT THE DEPARTMENT, UM, SHOULD ENGAGE IN THE VERY MINIMUM SEMI-ANNUAL COMPREHENSIVE CROWD CONTROL TRAINING FOR ALL PERSONNEL.

AND THIS IS A RECOMMENDATION AGAIN, FROM THE INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF CHIEFS OF POLICE, NOT ONLY DO THEY RECOMMEND ONGOING TRAINING, BUT THEY ALSO RECOMMEND ONGOING TRAINING IN COLLABORATION WITH OTHER LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES.

SO INCLUDING OUR EMS, INCLUDING OUR FIRE DEPARTMENT, INCLUDING, UM, I BELIEVE IT'S SOME OF THE PROTESTS DPS WAS ALSO PRESENT.

AND I THINK THAT WOULD HELP IN TERMS OF HAVING A MORE COORDINATED, UM, RESPONSE.

UM, SO WE THINK THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT.

UM, MOVING FORWARD TO ENSURE THAT, UM, OFFICERS ARE AND ALL OFFICERS, BECAUSE PARTICULARLY IN THE PROCESS THAT OCCURRED HERE, WE HAD OFFICERS FROM ALL DIVISIONS THAT WERE CALLED AND SOME, UH, MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE HAD THE NECESSARY TRAINING, UM, DURING THAT TIME TO ADDRESS THE CROWD CONTROL AND THE PROTEST THAT, UH, THAT OCCURRED DURING THAT SUMMER.

UM, SO AGAIN, I DO WANT TO REFERENCE BACK TO THE 2019 REPORT FROM THE ILLINOIS ASSOCIATION FOR CHIEFS OF POLICE TO TALK ABOUT REALLY LOOKING AT CRIME MANAGEMENT POLICIES AND, UM, CONNECTING THEM AND MAKING SURE THAT THE POLICY IS TAKEN TO CONSIDERATION, YOU KNOW, FIRST AMENDMENT CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS WHEN PROTESTING, UM, AND THAT IT'S ALSO LOOKED VERY CLEARLY THROUGH THAT LENS.

UM, THEY ALSO TALK ABOUT, AND ONE THING THAT I DO WANT TO ADDRESS THAT CAME FROM BOTH REPORTS, UM, WAS TALKING ABOUT THE TRAINING THAT OFFICERS SHOULD HAVE, SHOULD INCLUDE THAT OFFICERS SHOULD NOT FIRE, UM, LESS LETHAL WEAPONS FROM THE AIR ELEVATED, UM, POSITIONS.

THERE'S A GENERAL, UM, INACCURACY THAT'S INNATE IN THAT.

UM, AND THAT IF THEY DO FIRE FROM THE AIR AND ELEVATED POSITION, IT INCREASES THE RISK OF STRIKING SOMEONE IN THE HEAD.

UM, AND THAT, THAT OBVIOUSLY IS, UM, PROBLEMATIC.

UM, THE OTHER THING THAT WE THINK THAT IS IMPORTANT, UM, GIVEN THE COMMUNITY OUTCRY, GIVEN, I THINK COUNCIL MUST'VE HEARD HOURS, EIGHT HOURS OR MORE OF TESTIMONY FROM PEOPLE WHO PARTICIPATED IN THE PROTEST THAT SUMMER, THAT WE THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT REPORT BACK TO COMMUNITY IN A VERY PUBLIC WAY ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT WAS LEARNED, WHAT WILL BE DONE MOVING FORWARD AND HOW CROWD MANAGEMENT AND CROWD CONTROL CAN BE APPROVED UPON IN TERMS OF TACTICS AND COMMUNICATION.

WE THINK THAT THAT IS PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT, UM, IN THIS SITUATION AT, AS, AS IT WAS UNPRECEDENTED.

UM, AND THAT THERE, THERE SHOULD BE SOME SORT OF CLOSURE AND REFLECTION ON HOW THE DEPARTMENT CAN IMPROVE IN THESE SITUATIONS.

UM, I THINK THAT IT'S MY LAST SLIDE.

UM, AND I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMITTEE.

UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF REALLY GOOD RECOMMENDATIONS HERE.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT PRESENTATION COLLEAGUES.

DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS AS IT LOOKS LIKE COUNCIL MEMBER KELLY, THEN COUNCIL MEMBER CASSETTE, THANK YOU FOR THAT PRESENTATION.

[00:20:01]

I'D LIKE TO ASK A FEW QUESTIONS BASED ON THOSE.

UM, NUMBER ONE WAS INVESTIGATE ALL COMPLAINTS DESPITE WHERE THEY ORIGINATE.

I'M WONDERING IF YOU COULD HELP EXPLAIN TO ME IF A COMPLAINT COMES IN THAT IS SOMEBODY WHO HEARD FROM SOMEONE ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED, HOW YOU MIGHT VET THAT SO THAT YOU AREN'T DUPLICATING.

IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU ALREADY ARE IN THE PROCESS OF ENSURING THERE'S NO DUPLICATION THERE, BUT IF A COMPLAINT IS BASED ON HEARSAY, HOW, HOW DO YOU FIND THAT OUT? SO WE ACTUALLY ENCOURAGED REPORTS.

WE THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT IN TERMS OF INTERACTION WITH THE COMMUNITY LEADERS AND OFFICER.

WE ENCOURAGE DIRECTOR.

MY WE'RE, WE'RE HAVING SOME ISSUES WITH YOUR AUDIO.

I WONDER IF MAYBE YOU COULD MUTE YOUR VIDEO FOR A MOMENT AND SEE IF THAT, IF THAT WORKS, YOU'RE, YOU'RE SKETCHING OUT ON US.

ONE SECOND, PLEASE.

THANK YOU, COUNCIL MEMBERS THAT BETTER? I BELIEVE SO.

UM, UM, COUNCIL MEMBER KELLY'S QUESTION WAS ABOUT VETTING, UM, COMPLAINTS THAT MAY COME FROM SECONDHAND.

AND WHAT I WAS MENTIONING IS THAT WE DO ENCOURAGE, UM, UM, BYSTANDER COMPLAINTS IN TERMS OF WHEN A COMMUNITY MEMBER MAY SEE SOMETHING, UM, THAT MAY NOT SIT WELL WITH THEM.

UM, AND, AND, AND, AND AT LEAST CONTACT OUR OFFICE.

I THINK HOW WE DO THAT, UM, COUNCIL MEMBER KELLY, IS THAT WE CONDUCT A PRELIMINARY REVIEW AND WHAT WE DO IN OUR COMMUNICATION WITH THE PUBLIC IS, UM, REALLY ASKED FOR TIME DATE AND LOCATION.

AND IN OUR PRELIMINARY REVIEW, WE'RE ABLE TO OBTAIN WHAT'S CALLED BODY CAM VIDEO IN ANY SORT OF DEMAT VIDEO TO ASCERTAIN.

I DON'T WANT TO SAY THE VERACITY, BUT TO SEE IF THERE ARE ANY POTENTIAL POLICY VIOLATIONS.

WHEN WE DO THIS, IF WE SEE THAT THERE IS A POTENTIAL AGAIN, POTENTIAL, CAUSE WE DO NOT CONDUCT THE INVESTIGATION, A VIOLATION, WE CREATE WHAT'S CALLED A NOTICE OF FORMAL COMPLAINT.

AND WE SEND THAT TO INTERNAL AFFAIRS FOR INVESTIGATION.

IF WE DO NOT SEE A POTENTIAL POLICY VIOLATION, WE CLOSE IT OUT AND WE TAKE IT A STEP FURTHER.

WE COMMUNICATE WITH THE COMPLAINANT TO THE STEP THAT WE CAN CAUSE SOME, SOMETIMES THEY ARE ANONYMOUS AND WE EXPLAINED TO THEM WHY IT WAS NOT A POTENTIAL POLICY VIOLATION.

AND WE THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE WE THINK EDUCATING THE PUBLIC IS A KEY PART OF WHAT WE DO.

UM, AND SO I WILL TELL YOU JUST BASED ON NUMBERS, WE MAY GET ABOUT 50 COMPLAINTS A MONTH AND THIS IS APPROXIMATE AND WE MIGHT SUBMIT MAYBE 10 TO AN INTERNAL AFFAIRS FOR INVESTIGATION AND THEN MAYBE TWO OR THREE ARE ACTUALLY INVESTIGATED.

SO, UM, NUMBER WISE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT MANY CASES ACTUALLY BEING INVESTIGATED, BUT IT SHOWS YOU THAT OUR PRELIMINARY REVIEW IS ACTUALLY WORKING BECAUSE WE'RE NOT SUBMITTING ALL 50 TO INTERNAL AFFAIRS FOR INVESTIGATION.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? IT SURE DOES.

THANK YOU FOR THE LONG ANSWER.

THAT'S OKAY.

ON RECOMMENDATION, NUMBER TWO, YOU REQUIRE ALL SWORN PERSONNEL WORKING IN ANY CAPACITY TO HAVE BODY-WORN CAMERA POWERED ON FOR THE ENTIRETY OF THEIR SHIFT.

I'M CURIOUS TO KNOW IF THE EXPECTATION IS THAT OFFICERS WILL HAVE BODY CAMS ON WHEN TAKING CALLS FROM FAMILY USING THE BATHROOM OR EAT.

SO I'M COUNCIL MEMBER.

THIS ISN'T A CONTEXT OF CROWD CONTROL AND PROTESTS BECAUSE WE WANT TO CAPTURE THE, THE ACTIVITY.

AND SO THIS IS NOT IN THE CONTEXT OF LIKE REGULAR PATROL.

THIS IS REALLY LIMITED TO PROTEST ACTIVITY THAT, UM, BECAUSE THERE WERE A LOT OF INTERACTIONS THAT OCCURRED THAT WEREN'T CAPTURED IN THE PROTEST BECAUSE, UM, I BELIEVE OFFICERS WERE DIRECTED TO ONLY TURN IT ON WHEN AN INCIDENT WAS OCCURRING.

UM, AND BY THAT POINT, YOU KNOW, WE LOST THE ABILITY TO CAPTURE A LOT OF WHAT TRANSPIRED DURING THE PROTEST.

SO THAT RECOMMENDATION SPECIFICALLY TOURIST PROTEST, CROWD MANAGEMENT, CALM CONTROL IN THOSE INSTANCES.

I THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT CLARIFICATION.

I JUST HAVE A COUPLE MORE QUESTIONS HERE.

UM, ON RECOMMENDATION, NUMBER FOUR, I NOTICED THAT YOU SAID USE OF FORCE, AND I KNOW THAT APD HAS A POLICY FOR RESPONSE TO RESISTANCE, AND I'M WONDERING WHY YOU UTILIZED USE OF FORCE AND NOT RESPONSE TO RESISTANCE AND NOT RECOMMENDATION, LIKE JUST THE TERMINOLOGY.

WITH THE COMMUNITY ON WHY EPD UTILIZES THE TERMINOLOGY OF RESPONSE TO RESISTANCE VERSUS USE OF FORCE AND HOW THOSE CONVERSATIONS MIGHT'VE GONE.

SO WE PR WE DON'T AGREE WITH THE TERM OF RESPONSE TO RESISTANCE BECAUSE IT PRESUPPOSES RESISTANCE FROM COMMUNITY MEMBERS.

WE FEEL THEIR USE OF FORCE IS A MORE APPROPRIATE TERM BECAUSE IT IS LITERAL OR USE OF FORCE.

UM, AND SO, AND IT'S ALSO A COMMON LANGUAGE IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, WE, A LOT OF OUR ROLE IS EDUCATING THE PUBLIC AND THE PUBLIC UNDERSTANDS WHAT USE OF FORCES.

UM, THEY DON'T TEND TO UNDERSTAND RESPONSE TO RESISTANCE.

SO WE GENERALLY HAVE A POLICY.

UM, I DON'T WANT TO SAY A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION AS IT RELATES TO VERBIAGE OF RESPONSE TO RESISTANCE, HOW IT'S APPLIED AS OPPOSED TO USE OF FORCE.

I UNDERSTAND.

SO I KNOW THAT YOU ARE REALLY BIG ON EDUCATION.

AND SO I'M WONDERING IF YOU'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS

[00:25:01]

I THINK THAT, UM, THOSE CONVERSATIONS ACTUALLY PREDATE ME.

I THINK THAT HAPPENED WHEN APD CHANGED HIS POLICY FROM USE OF FORCE TO RESPONSE TO RESISTANCE.

UM, BUT IT'S, I BELIEVE IT'S PART OF OUR, WE ARE RELEASING A REPORT THAT TALKS ABOUT, UM, OUR COMMUNITY FEEDBACK THAT WE RECEIVED FROM OUR EIGHT CAN'T WAIT, UM, ANALYSIS THAT WE ISSUED EARLIER THIS YEAR.

AND I BELIEVE PART OF THAT IS IN THERE, BUT I'LL JUST TELL YOU, MOST COMMUNITY MEMBERS REALLY UNDERSTAND THE TERMS OF USE OF FORCE AND NOT RESPONSE TO RESISTANCE.

UM, I THINK IT'S MORE OF, UM, POLICE LINGO.

UM, THAT'S USED KIND OF MORE SO INTERNALLY, UM, AND IT'S NOT REALLY UNDERSTANDABLE TO OUR GREATER COMMUNITY.

UM, BUT IT'S ESSENTIALLY, WE USE THAT, I THINK IN OUR OVERSIGHT WORLD AND IN THE POLICING WORLD AT SYNONYMOUSLY, BUT I TEND TO USE THEM BECAUSE I WANT THE COMMUNITY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.

THAT MAKES SENSE.

I JUST THINK IT'S A GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO REALLY BRIDGE THOSE THINGS IN THE EDUCATION PORTION OF THE COMMUNITY.

UM, SO ANOTHER RECOMMENDATION YOU HAD SEVEN WAS ABOUT COMPREHENSIVE CROP CONTROL TRAINING.

UM, I THINK THAT'S GREAT, BUT RIGHT NOW I SEE A ISSUE WITH STAFFING RELATED TO PATROL VACANCIES.

AND WE HAVE TO HAVE STAFFING IN ORDER TO GIVE THE OFFICERS WHO ARE WORKING TIME OFF.

HAVE YOU CONSIDERED ANY WAY TO PROVIDE THIS TRAINING, GIVEN OUR CURRENT STAFFING SITUATION AT APD? WELL, I THINK THAT THERE'S GIVEN, YOU KNOW, THE INCREASE IN BUDGET TO 442 MILLION THAT APD JUST RECEIVED.

I THINK THERE'S ROOM FOR THAT.

AND I THINK THERE'S ALSO ROOM TO ADD THIS TRAINING AS PART OF KIND OF, I KNOW I'M CALLING A CLE, BUT IT'S NOT CLE, BUT THE CONTINUING EDUCATION THAT THE DEPARTMENT PROVIDES THROUGH THE ACADEMY OF NOT ONLY CADETS, BUT ALSO FOREIGN OFFICERS, I THINK ADDING CROWD CONTROL AS PART OF THAT IS SOMETHING THAT THE DEPARTMENT SHOULD IMPLEMENT BECAUSE I THINK THEY WOULD POTENTIALLY MAY SEE MORE PROTESTS IN THE FUTURE.

AND I'D LIKE TO SEE THE DEPARTMENT BETTER PREPARED AND OFFICERS BETTER TRAINED, UM, TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY CAN.

SO, AND I LIKE HOW YOU MENTIONED THE POLICE BUDGET BECAUSE, UM, YOU KNOW, WE DID PUT POLICE BUDGET BACK IN, UM, WE'VE WE FIXED DATE ACCORDING TO HB 1900, BUT WE DIDN'T ACTUALLY ADD ANY PATROL OFFICER ROLES TO THAT BUDGET.

SO I STILL SEE THAT AS SOMETHING THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO WORK ON, ESPECIALLY WITH THE ATTRITION RATE.

AND SO I'D LIKE TO HAVE A FOLLOW-UP CONVERSATION WITH YOU ON HOW WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO PROVIDE THAT TRAINING TO THE OFFICERS, UM, AND ENSURE THAT WE STILL HAVE RULES BACK FILLED SO THAT WE'RE NOT TAKING MORE OFFICERS ON THE STREET TO DO THAT TRAINING.

BUT MY LAST QUESTION HERE, UM, IS REPORTING BACK TO THE COMMUNITY, YOUR RECOMMENDATION, NUMBER 10, REPORTING BACK TO THE COMMUNITY WITH AN EXPLANATION OF HOW OR WHAT IT CAN EXPECT FROM APD AND CROWD MANAGEMENT SCENARIOS GOING FORWARD.

I'D LIKE TO REALLY SEE THAT AS A TWO WAY DISCUSSION.

I THINK THAT WE SHOULD PROTECT PEOPLE PROTESTING PEACEFULLY, BUT ALSO WE SHOULD HAVE, UM, CONVERSATIONS ON HOW WE CAN MAKE THAT HAPPEN IN A PRODUCTIVE MANNER SO THAT WE DON'T SEE THINGS GET OUT OF CONTROL LIKE THEY DID.

UM, ALL THAT SAID, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS.

I REALLY APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS AND I LOOK FORWARD TO HOW THEY'RE GOING TO BE IMPLEMENTED IN THE FUTURE.

AND I'M HAPPY TO I'LL SHARE WITH YOUR STAFF THAT I THINK YOU MIGHT ENJOY THOSE REPORT FROM THE ICP THAT ILLINOIS ASSOCIATIONS WITH CHIEF OF POLICE ON CON CONTROL.

I'LL SEND YOU THAT LATER TODAY.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

THANK YOU, DIRECTOR MUSKET AND, UH, COUNCIL MEMBER, CASA DIRECTOR OF BUSTED, AND I THINK YOUR INTERNET STARTED DOING BETTER, UH, PARTWAY THROUGH THERE.

DO YOU WANT TO TRY TO COME BACK? WE'LL LET YOU KNOW IF IT'S GETTING CHOPPY AND YOU'RE GOING TO SEE ME FEEDING TREATS TO MY DOGS CAUSE THEY'RE WIDENING.

WE'LL LET YOU KNOW.

BUT, UM, FIRST JUST GETTING BACK TO THE, TO THE NUMBERS, UM, OF YOUR TWO OVER 200 ON DUPLICATED UNDUPLICATED AT COMMUNITY COMPLAINTS, YOU'RE SAYING ONLY 27 WERE ULTIMATELY INVESTIGATED, IS THAT RIGHT? YES.

AND THAT THOSE ARE YES.

UM, IN SPECIFICALLY THOSE CASES WHO HAD A 180, WHICH MEANS THAT THEY'RE, THEY HAVE, UH, KIND OF LIKE, UH, THEIR, UM, TIMEFRAME OF ENDING WAS THE END OF NOVEMBER.

SO LIKE KIND OF THEIR STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS WAS END OF NOVEMBER.

AND WHAT YOU'RE STATING ON YOUR LATER SLIDE IS THAT YOU OBJECTED TO A CLOSURE OF THOSE OVER 150 COMPLAINTS WITHOUT INVESTIGATION.

YOU KNOW, UM, THEY IT'S IT UNDER THEIR PURVIEW TO ISSUE DISCIPLINE.

AND THEN OF THE 27 COMMUNITY COMPLAINTS THAT WERE INVESTIGATED, THERE WAS DISCIPLINE.

DO YOU HAVE THE NUMBER OF HOW MANY TIMES THERE WAS DISCIPLINARY DECISION ASSOCIATED WITH THOSE 27? I HAVE THAT NUMBER.

I MIGHT HAVE TO LOOK AT IT PRETTY QUICKLY.

UM, BUT I, I WAS, I THINK I'M GOING TO PUNCH TO TROY, UM, BECAUSE PD,

[00:30:01]

UM, SO I WANT TO LEAVE THAT TO HIM, BUT I BELIEVE THE NUMBERS THROUGH THE END OF DECEMBER WHERE I BELIEVE 11 OFFICERS WERE DISCIPLINED IN SOME FORM FROM, UM, EDUCATION BASED DISCIPLINE TO, UM, TO ORAL REPRIMAND.

UM, I BELIEVE THE MAJORITY OF THE OFFICERS RECEIVED, UM, EDUCATION-BASED DISCIPLINE AND I'LL GET TO THE CHIEF HERE IN A SECOND.

BUT IN THOSE, IN THOSE CASES, HOW MANY OF THOSE DID YOU OBJECT TO VERSUS HOW MANY OF THOSE TIMES DID YOU AGREE? I WOULD SAY THAT WE OBJECTED TO THE PROBABLY 90% OF THOSE CASES YOU MAY NOT HAVE OBJECTED TO.

WAS THERE WAS ONE OFFICER THAT RECEIVED A 10 DAY SUSPENSION, AND I BELIEVE THAT MAY BE THE ONLY ONE WE DIDN'T OBJECTIVE.

SO OF THE 27, YOU'RE SAYING YOU OBJECTED TO 26.

UM, I DON'T WANT TO USE, SO THE, THE, THE 27 IS OF, OF EXTERNAL COMPLAINTS COMPLAINTS FROM THE COMMUNITY THAT WERE INVESTIGATED JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE INVESTIGATED DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN THEY LEAD TO DISCIPLINE.

SO OF THOSE THAT WERE INVESTIGATED, WE OBJECTED FOR VARIOUS REASONS ON THE VAST MAJORITY OF THEM.

AND THEN OF THE 11, WHERE THERE WAS A DISCIPLINARY DECISION, YOU OBJECTED TO 10, AT LEAST 10.

TRY TO FIGURE IT OUT OURSELVES.

YEAH, YEAH.

IT WAS A VERY HIGH NUMBER.

I MEAN, WE HAD A LOT OF ISSUES THROUGHOUT EVERY STAGE OF THE PROTEST, UM, REVIEW AND PROCESS, AND JUST FOR FOLKS WATCHING OR FOR THE MEDIA REPORTING.

THE REASON I ASK THESE QUESTIONS IS BECAUSE THIS IS THE SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE SET UP WHERE ULTIMATELY THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND INTERNAL AFFAIRS CHOOSES WHETHER TO INVESTIGATE A COMPLAINT, UM, DOES THE INVESTIGATIONS, UM, AND THEN THE OFFICE OF POLICE OVERSIGHT, UH, SUBMITS THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS.

AND IF IT GETS IMPORTANT FOR THE COMMUNITY AND FOR US TO KNOW WHEN THERE IS A DISAGREEMENT HERE OR THERE, BUT SEEING THIS PRESENTATION, SEEING DISAGREEMENTS IN 10 OF THE 11 DISCIPLINE CASES AND AS DIRECTOR MUSKET AND SAID, THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE INVESTIGATED CASES, UM, IS AN ISSUE OF CONCERN.

AND THE ONLY WAY WE ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES IS IF WE TALK ABOUT IT HERE PUBLICLY.

SO, UM, SO I APPRECIATE, UM, I APPRECIATE YOU, YOU RAISING THAT, UH, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT, UM, I THINK HERE YOU PUT THE SHEET, YOU ALL ADAMANTLY OBJECTED IN ONE SECTION, I THOUGHT THAT WAS, WERE STRONG WORDS HERE.

YOU SAID YOU ADAMANTLY OBJECTED TO THE, TO THE PRACTICE OF DISQUALIFYING COMPLAINTS BY ADMINISTRATIVELY CLOSING THEM.

UM, THAT, THAT ISN'T THE 27 CASES THAT IS GOING FROM THE 200 DOWN TO THE 27.

IS THAT RIGHT? THAT'S CORRECT.

THAT'S CORRECT.

AND SO IN THOSE INSTANCES, DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY OF THOSE INSTANCES YOU HAD THAT STRONG OBJECTION OF THE 170 OR SO THAT JUST WEREN'T INVESTIGATED? UM, I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT NUMBER, BUT I WILL TELL YOU THAT IS PROBABLY AT LEAST 150.

I MEAN, BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY CASES THAT WERE ADMINISTRATIVE CLOTHES OR WHAT WE CALL CLASS D THAT I MADE.

AND I TALKED ABOUT A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES.

IF A COMPLAINANT CAN IDENTIFY THE OFFICER, WE DISAGREED THAT THAT CASE SHOULD BE CLOSED.

UM, IF A COMPLAINANT, UM, ENGAGED IN WHAT THE DEPARTMENT CATEGORIZES, RIGHT.

HIS BEHAVIOR, AND THAT WOULD BE THROWING A WATER BOTTLE THAT IN OUR OPINION, DOES NOT ABSOLVE INTERNAL AFFAIRS LOOKING AT WHETHER OR NOT THE POLICE OFFICER ENGAGED IN POTENTIAL POLICE MISCONDUCT.

AND SO WE DISAGREED WITH, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE RATIONALE THAT THEY USE TO CLOSE CASES.

AND SO, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S A LOT OF WHAT, UH, WHAT WE SAW IN THE ADMIN CLOTHES OR THE CLASS D CASES.

AND THAT'S THE MAJORITY OF THE COMPLAINTS.

I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S THE MAJORITY OF THEM IT'S WELL, MORE THAN 60% OF THEM.

SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THAT IN A CASE WHERE SOMEONE FELT DISRESPECTED OR WAS INJURED OR SAW AN INJURY, BUT THEY WEREN'T ABLE TO IDENTIFY THE OFFICER AND THEY SUBMITTED THAT COMPLAINT TO YOUR OFFICE, THE POLICE DEPARTMENT COULD EITHER IN YOUR VIEW, COULD EITHER CHOOSE TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHO IT WAS OR COULD JUST CLOSE THE COMPLAINT.

AND YOUR, AND YOUR OBJECTION DIRECTOR MUST GET IN IS THAT YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT SHOWS JUST TO CLOSE OUT THE COMPLAINT AND NOT

[00:35:01]

RIGHT.

IF THE, IF THE COMPLAINANT DIDN'T IDENTIFY WHO THE SPECIFIC OFFICER WAS, THE DEPARTMENT CLOSED THE CASE.

AND THEN WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THAT, SO THERE'S THOSE ISSUES, AND THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE A RECOMMENDATION ABOUT THE BADGE NUMBER OR THE NAME, BUT ALSO I'LL ASK THIS QUESTION OF THE CHIEF HERE IN A SECOND TO GIVE HIM A CHANCE, BUT ALSO WE COULD, ANOTHER RECOMMENDATION COULD BE FOR US TO TRY TO SORT IT OUT OURSELVES USING OUR OWN VIDEO OR INFORMATION.

AND THEN THE OTHER QUESTION IS, OKAY, IF YOU'RE SAYING, IF A PROTESTER ALLEGEDLY THREW A WATER BOTTLE, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT WE DIDN'T INVESTIGATE WHETHER OUR RESPONSE WAS PROPORTIONATE AND APPROPRIATE.

RIGHT? SO IF THAT, UM, SO A LOT OF THERE'S A GENERAL SENTIMENT THAT, UM, THE WHOLE PROTEST, ALL OF IT WAS RIOTOUS BEHAVIOR.

AND SO WE DISAGREED WITH THAT BECAUSE, UM, IT SHOULD BE TAKEN AS A CASE CASE BY CASE BASIS.

UH, AGAIN, I, I TALK ABOUT HOW I WATCHED THE PROTESTS ALMOST EVERY SINGLE EVENING.

UM, AND A LOT OF IT, PARTICULARLY SOME IN FRONT OF THE MAIN WERE CHANTING, UM, STUFF LIKE THAT.

AND THAT GENERALLY WAS CONSIDERED JUST THE OVERALL PROTESTS THAT HAPPENED OVER THAT SUMMER GENERALLY WAS CONSIDERED RIOTOUS BEHAVIOR.

SO IF SOME, IF A PROTESTOR WAS DOING SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED, OR THE DEPARTMENT CATEGORIZES JUST USING, LIKE THROWING THE WATER BOTTLE, IT, I MEAN, IT COULD BE SOMETHING ELSE.

UM, THEN THE COMPLAINT WASN'T INVESTIGATED BECAUSE OF THE ACTIONS OF THE COMPLAINANT.

UM, AND WE DISAGREED WITH THAT BECAUSE THOUGH THE ACTION OF THE COMPLAINANT MAY BE AN ISSUE.

IT DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN THAT THERE MAY NOT BE A POTENTIAL POLICY VIOLATION ON THE OFFICER THAT I SHOULD NOT, AND AT THE VERY LEAST INVESTIGATE.

AND SO THAT, THAT IS, YOU KNOW, UH, JUST A DIFFERENCE OF PERSPECTIVE, UM, IN TERMS OF HOW WE LOOK AT THE PROTEST.

WELL, THANK YOU FOR RAISING THIS UP.

SO I'D LIKE TO ASK THE FOLLOW-UPS TO CHIEF GAY FROM THAT SO THAT THE COMMITTEE CAN GET A SENSE OF WHAT THE DISAGREEMENT IS, CHIEF YOU, YOU HERE WITH US.

WELL, THANK YOU FOR JOINING AND PARTICIPATING.

CAUSE THIS IS, AS I SAID, THIS IS THE WAY OUR SYSTEM IS, IS SUPPOSED TO WORK AS WE'VE SET IT UP.

SO CAN YOU ADDRESS THAT ISSUE? IT SEEMS LIKE THE FIRST AND BIGGEST ISSUE THAT WAS DESCRIBED AS ADAMANT OBJECTIONS FROM OPO WAS THE CLOSING OF OVER 170 OF THOSE COMMUNITY UNDUPLICATED COMMUNITY COMPLAINTS.

CAN YOU TALK US THROUGH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT'S RATIONALE FOR FIRST OF ALL, IF YOU AGREE THAT THIS IS WHY THEY WERE CLOSED AND SECOND, THE RATIONALE FOR, UH, NOT INVESTIGATING A COMPLAINT BECAUSE THE COMPLAINANT COULDN'T IDENTIFY THE OFFICER.

AND THEN IF YOU COULD ALSO TALK ABOUT NOT INVESTIGATING A COMPLAINT, IF THE PROTESTOR, FOR EXAMPLE, ALLEGEDLY THREW A WATER BOTTLE.

ALSO, THERE IS A CLASSIFICATION THAT SOMETIMES SHE DOES NOT SEE AS A FORMAL INVESTIGATION OF IF WE DO SEE A PARTICULAR POLICY VIOLATION, AND IT'S A MINOR POLICY VIOLATION THAT FITS UNDER WHAT WE CALL A OFFICER FINAL CLASSIFICATION AGREEMENT, WHICH MEANS IS YOU SEE THE ACTION ON VIDEO.

I'LL TRY.

YOU MAY HAVE TO REMIND ME ON A COUPLE OF THE FOLLOW-UPS THERE, BUT ONE IS THAT, UM, AND, UH, JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT ON THE THOUSAND OR SO COMPLAINTS THAT WERE MADE THROUGH OPO, UH, THE NORMAL THAT OPO FOLLOWS OF REVIEWING AND PROVIDING A PRELIMINARY A REVIEW WAS NOT DONE JUST TO THE SHEER VOLUME.

SO, UH, WE DID OUR BEST TO WORK WITH OPO.

UH, WE DID CREATE A SPECIFIC TASK FORCE, UM, BECAUSE WE DID NOT FEEL THAT INTERNAL AFFAIRS COULD HANDLE THEIR NORMAL WORKLOAD AS WELL AS THE SHEER VOLUME, UH, THAT WAS GENERATED THROUGH THE PROTEST.

SO THESE WERE LIEUTENANTS AND SERGEANTS THAT HAD, UH, WORKED IN INTERNAL AFFAIRS IN THE PAST AND UNDERSTOOD THE PROCESS.

SO JUST WANTED TO GO THROUGH, UH, THAT PIECE, UH, ALL THE CASES THAT, UH, ANY TIME WE GET A, UH, NOTICE OF FORMAL INVESTIGATION FROM THE LPO IS OUR DEPARTMENT, UH, LOOKS AT THAT.

WE LOOK AT ALL THE MATERIAL, UH, WE'D PULL REPORTS, WE'D PULL VIDEOS, WE DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO BE ABLE TO PROPERLY CLASSIFY THAT PARTICULAR COMPLAINT.

UH, THE PARTICULAR COMPLAINTS THAT SHE IS TALKING ABOUT, OR COMPLAINTS THAT WE REVIEWED.

AND AFTER REVIEWING THOSE, WE WERE ABLE TO CLASSIFY THOSE AS, AS I BELIEVE, UH, UH, DIRECTOR MUSKEGON AND MENTIONED LIKE A CLASS D THAT MEANS THAT WE REVIEWED THE INCIDENT AND WE DID NOT SEE ANY POLICY VIOLATIONS.

SO THEREFORE THAT PARTICULAR COMPLAINT WAS NOT FORMALLY INVESTIGATED.

[00:40:02]

IT'S PRETTY CLEAR THE OFFICER VIOLATED THAT POLICY, AND WE'RE ABLE TO EXPEDITE THAT, UH, DISCIPLINE OF THAT PARTICULAR OFFICER.

SO THERE WERE CASES IN CASES THAT INVOLVED THE OFFICER FINAL CLASSIFICATION AGREEMENT AS WELL, UM, IN REFERENCE TO, UH, THE CONCERN ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT A PERSON WAS IDENTIFIED OR NOT.

UH, I BELIEVE THAT OUR DEPARTMENT DID EVERYTHING WE COULD TO IDENTIFY OFFICERS INVOLVED WITH ANY COMPLAINT THAT WAS GENERATED BY THE, UH, OPO, UH, JUST TO GIVE YOU, UH, SOMETHING THAT WAS, UH, UNPRECEDENTED IS ONE, JUST THE SHEER VOLUME OF, UH, BODY-WORN CAMERAS THAT HAD TO BE REVIEWED.

SO THEREFORE WE DID NOT WANT TO LEAVE IT TO CHANCE THAT EVERY SECOND OF EVERY VIDEO FOR THE PROTESTS FROM, UH, WHEN THE PROTEST STARTED THROUGH, UH, J UH, JUNE 11TH, WHICH WAS THE, WHICH WAS ABOUT THE CORE TIME OF THE PROTEST IS EVERY SECOND OF EVERY BODY WORN CAMERA OF EVERY OFFICER WAS REVIEWED DURING THAT TIMEFRAME.

THAT IS WHY WE GENERATED 21 FORMAL INVESTIGATIONS.

AND ALTHOUGH THERE WERE OTHER INFORMAL RELATED COMPLAINTS, CONDUCT COUNSELING, FIELD NOTES OF THAT NATURE THAT WERE ALSO IDENTIFIED DURING THOSE.

BUT JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA THAT THERE WERE 5,648 BODY WORN CAMERA INCIDENTS THAT WERE REVIEWED BY THIS TASK FORCE OVER ABOUT A FOUR TO FIVE MONTH PERIOD, THEY WERE PULLED OFF THEIR REGULAR DUTY ASSIGNMENT.

AND THAT WAS THEIR PRIMARY ASSIGNMENT TO DO THAT AS WITH ANY USE OF FORCE INCIDENT OR ANY TYPE OF INCIDENT.

UH, THOSE DO NOT GO TO OPO.

THOSE ARE REVIEWED BY THE CHAIN OF COMMAND.

SO IN THIS PARTICULAR INCIDENT, IF, UM, A FORCE INCIDENT WAS IDENTIFIED, UH, NOT ONLY THE FOREST REVIEW TEAM, BUT ALSO THE CHAIN OF COMMAND WOULD REVIEW THAT INCIDENT AND FOLLOW THE NORMAL PROCEDURES.

IF THEY FOUND THAT THERE WAS A POTENTIAL POLICY VIOLATION, WHETHER IT BE LANGUAGE, UH, NEGLECT OF DUTY OF FORCE INCIDENT, THOSE WERE REFERRED TO INTERNAL AFFAIRS FOR INVESTIGATION.

AND THAT IS WHERE YOU SAW THE, UH, THE 21 PARTICULAR, UH, INTERNALS.

SO I CAN NAME PROBABLY RIGHT HERE FROM EVERYTHING FROM THE HAL INVESTIGATION TO SEVERAL OTHER INVESTIGATIONS, TO WHERE PEOPLE DID NOT KNOW THE OFFICERS THAT ACTUALLY FIRED WEAPONS OR FIRE, THE LESS LETHAL.

AND WE WERE ABLE TO, IN SOME OF THOSE INCIDENTS IDENTIFY THE SPECIFIC OFFICER OR SEVERAL OFFICERS THAT ACTUALLY UTILIZE LESS LETHAL.

WE DID THAT WITH EVERY INCIDENT WHERE WE WERE NOTIFIED THAT THERE WERE A CONCERN, WHETHER IT WOULD BE A COMPLAINT OR NOT THAT WE WENT IN AND REVIEWED THOSE INCIDENTS TO DO OUR BEST, TO TRY TO IDENTIFY, UH, THE OFFICER, THANK YOU FOR THAT.

SO I DO RECOGNIZE THAT WE HAVE LIMITED TIME HERE IN COMMITTEE, BUT I DO WANT TO PUT, IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE HEARING DIFFERENT THINGS.

SO I REALLY WANT TO JUST CLEAR IT UP.

SO DIRECTOR MUSKET IN OR CHIEF GAVE, IF WE COULD KEEP IT SHORT DIRECTOR MUSKET, AND IT SOUNDED LIKE YOU WERE SAYING THAT THERE WASN'T AN INVESTIGATION.

IF THE OFFICER COULDN'T BE IDENTIFIED CHIEF GAY, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE SAYING THAT Y'ALL DID TRY TO INVESTIGATE AND IDENTIFY THE OFFICERS.

IT WASN'T A MIXED BAG.

IS THERE A DISAGREEMENT? WHICH ONE IS IT? AND COULD Y'ALL GIVE US JUST A VERY BRIEF SUMMARY.

CAUSE I, I THOUGHT THAT WAS ONE OF MY THREE QUESTIONS AND I FEEL LIKE IT'S TAKING ABOUT AS LONG AS I THOUGHT, ALL THREE MINE, IF THE DEPARTMENT IS SAYING THAT COMPLAINTS WERE NOT DISCLOSED DISQUALIFY, BECAUSE I DID NOT IDENTIFY THE OFFICER, I WOULD DISAGREE WITH THAT STATEMENT.

I WOULD, IF, IF THE DEPARTMENT IS SAYING, WHEN THEY WERE ABLE TO IDENTIFY THE OFFICERS WERE SOME OF THOSE CASES INVESTIGATED SOME RIGHT WERE RIGHT.

BUT I MEAN, WHEN WE RECEIVED THE FINDING FROM A DETERMINATION FROM THE DEPARTMENT, WE RESPONDED IN WRITING WHAT OUR OBJECTIONS WERE.

[00:45:01]

AND SO WE HAVE SEVERAL OBJECTIONS OF CLOSURES FOR VARIOUS REASONS, INCLUDING THE FACT THAT WE OBJECTED TO CASES THAT DID NOT MOVE FORWARD BECAUSE THE OFFICER WASN'T IDENTIFIED.

CHIEF GAY TO YOUR, UM, TO THE SECOND QUESTION ABOUT NOT INVESTIGATING A CASE, IF A PROTESTER ALLEGEDLY THREW A WATER BOTTLE.

AND I UNDERSTAND THAT WE'VE HEARD THAT IN SOME CASES, MAYBE IT'S A WATER BOTTLE.

IN SOME CASES, THE OFFICER MAY NOT KNOW IF IT'S FROZEN OR IF IT'S A WATER BOTTLE OR NOT.

I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO THAT.

MY QUESTION IS AN OBJECTION FROM THE OPO IS THAT WE SHOULD STILL INVESTIGATE WHETHER OR NOT WE WERE PROPORTIONATELY RESPONDING IN THOSE CASES.

AND HER CONTENTION HERE IS THAT THERE WAS JUST NO INVESTIGATION PERIOD BECAUSE OF THAT.

AND YOUR RESPOND TO THAT.

IF WE HAD VIDEO EVIDENCE TO BE ABLE TO DEMONSTRATE WHAT THE PROTESTOR WAS DOING, AS WELL AS WHAT THE OFFICER RESPONDED, AND IT WAS CLEAR THAT IT WAS WITHIN A POLICY THAT WE DID NOT, AND WE DID NOT DO A FORMAL INVESTIGATION FOR THOSE, BUT THERE WERE MANY INCIDENTS TO WHERE, UH, AN OFFICER, UM, SUCH AS SET THAT IT WAS RIOTOUS BEHAVIOR THAT WE DID NOT AGREE WITH.

AND SEVERAL OF THOSE OFFICERS WERE ACTUALLY PART OF THE, UH, OFFICERS THAT WERE SUSTAINED ON, UH, FOR, FOR VIOLATIONS.

SO, UH, I BELIEVE THAT THAT'S A YES AND A NO, DEPENDING ON THE SITUATION, BUT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS IN THE CASE WHERE A COMMUNITY MEMBER, ALLEGEDLY YOU HAVE VIDEO SHOWING A COMMUNITY MEMBER, THROWING A WATER BOTTLE, YOU ALL DID NOT INVESTIGATE THOSE CASES JUST BASED ON THAT, ON THAT PIECE, IS THAT RIGHT? UH, WE DID CONDUCT A PRELIMINARY INVESTIGATION INTO THAT PARTICULAR INCIDENT.

AND IF WE WERE ABLE TO, WHETHER IT BE THROUGH THE, THE DRONE FOOTAGE, THE HALO FOOTAGE, THE, THE CAMERA FOOTAGE FROM THE DEPARTMENT BODY-WORN CAMERA, IF WE WERE ABLE TO PUT THAT INCIDENT TOGETHER IN ITS ENTIRETY AND BE ABLE TO SHOW THAT THE OFFICER'S FORCE WAS REASONABLE.

NO, WE DID NOT, UH, INVESTIGATE THAT, THAT PARTICULAR DIRECTOR MUSKET.

AND DO YOU, DO YOU CONCUR WITH THAT? I CONCUR WITH THAT, BUT THEREIN LIES THE ISSUE, RIGHT.

IT, WHICH IS THE REVIEW OF THE POLICY.

AND SO, UM, AND, YOU KNOW, AS A, I'LL JUST USE THE TERM, UM, THAT COUNCIL MEMBER OF KELLY TALKS ABOUT THE RESPONSE TO RESISTANCE.

SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT OUR FUNDAMENTAL DISAGREEMENT WAS THAT WE DON'T, WE DON'T AGREE THAT WAS REASONABLE.

AND WE ALSO DON'T AGREE THAT THE ACT OF THAT, THE COMMUNITY MEMBER NAKED PIECE OF REVIEW OF THE RESPONSE BY THE, THE OFFICER.

AND SO I THINK THAT'S JUST A FUNDAMENTAL DISAGREEMENT, AND I THINK THAT'S WHY WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO YOU UPDATING PDS POLICIES ON USE OF FORCE SLASH RESPONSE TO RESISTANCE CHAIR.

I'LL YIELD FOR A SECOND.

I HAD ONE OR TWO LAST UP QUESTIONS, BUT I SEE OTHERS HAVE THEIR HANDS UP.

I APPRECIATE THAT.

UM, I ACTUALLY, I'M GONNA, UM, DECLINED TO ASK ANY QUESTIONS.

THE ONE THAT I DID HAVE, AND I WAS ACTUALLY JUST GONNA LOOK FOR SOME CLARIFICATION, UM, UH, DID IN FACT, HEAR DIRECTOR MUSKETT AND SAY OUT OF 202, THAT 27 WERE INVESTIGATED.

AND I THINK YOU GOT THE CLARITY THAT I NEEDED THERE.

SO I'LL DECLINE TO ASK ANY OTHER QUESTIONS.

IT LOOKS LIKE, UM, COUNCIL MEMBER ALTAR HAS A QUESTION.

ACCORDING TO, UH, UH, OUR MATRIX, UH, THIS, UH, MATRIX POLICY.

UM, I WANTED TO FIRST ASK, UM, CHIEF GAY, IF YOU COULD, UM, ELABORATE A LITTLE BIT MORE ON THE SORT OF OFFICER CLASSIFICATION AGREEMENTS, UM, AND PROVIDE SOME INFORMATION ON THE NUMBER OF OFFICERS, UM, THAT WERE PUT IN THIS EXPEDITED DISCIPLINED PATH.

UH, THAT WAS A NEW INFORMATION FOR ME AND I, AND I WANNA UNDERSTAND THAT BETTER.

UH, IT WOULD PROBABLY TAKE A LONG TIME.

UH, I CAN PROVIDE YOU OUR POLICY THAT OUTLINES WHEN OFFICERS QUALIFY.

IT'S A, IT'S AN EXPEDITED WAY.

UH, SOMETIMES THE INTERNAL AFFAIRS PROCESS IS VERY LENGTHY.

AND SO IF IT, IF IT FITS IN A CATEGORY AND THE MATRIX THAT, UH, IS, UH, BETWEEN A WRITTEN REPRIMAND AND UP TO THREE DAYS POTENTIALLY OFF, AND WE HAVE CLEAR EVIDENCE TO SHOW LIKE A BODY-WORN CAMERA THAT THE OFFICER DID THE ACTION, AND WE DON'T REALLY NEED TO ASK THE OFFICER IF HE DID IT, BECAUSE IT'S PRETTY CLEAR IF THE OFFICER AGREES TO IT, MEANING THAT THEY AGREE THAT THEY VIOLATED POLICY, THEN THEY ARE IT'S EXPEDITED AND THEY ARE DISCIPLINED

[00:50:01]

AND SO IN THE CASE OF THE PROTEST, HOW MANY OF THOSE HAPPENED, AND CAN YOU GIVE ME A SENSE OF WHAT KIND OF INFRACTIONS LED TO WHAT KIND OF DISCIPLINE? I I'D HAVE TO GET THAT FOR YOU.

MA'AM I DON'T MIND GETTING THAT FOR YOU, BUT I DON'T HAVE THAT TODAY FOR OKAY.

I THINK IT WOULD BE HELPFUL.

AND THEN WE WOULD NEED TO UNDERSTAND HOW THAT RELATES TO, UM, WHAT DIRECTOR HAS GIVEN HAS LAID OUT TO THOSE COMPLAINTS, BECAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE A, MAYBE A SEPARATE PATH, AND I'M, I'M A LITTLE CONFUSED ABOUT HOW THESE WORK TOGETHER.

UM, SECONDLY, I WANTED TO LOOK FORWARD INSTEAD OF BACKWARDS.

SO WE HAVE A SET OF 10 RECOMMENDATIONS FROM OUR OPO ON STEPS THAT OUGHT TO BE TAKEN IN CONDITIONS OF CROWD CONTROL, UM, OF THOSE 10, YOU KNOW, TELL US WHAT APDS RESPONSE IS.

UM, THESE SOUND LIKE NO BRAINERS FOR THE MOST PART, FOR THE NON-SWORN PERS PEOPLE THAT WE ARE, I THINK, UM, SO WHAT IS APDS PLAN? VIS-A-VIS EACH OF THESE 10 TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THEM AND WHAT IS THE PROCESS FOR THEM TO BECOME POLICY FOR APD? I DON'T HAVE THEM UPRIGHT.

NOW TODAY WAS THE FIRST DAY I LOOKED AT MOST OF THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS, BUT I WILL SAY, I AGREE WITH YOU THAT MOST OF THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WE ALREADY HAVE IDENTIFIED IS, UH, AREAS THAT NEED TO BE IMPROVED UPON.

UH, BUT WE CAN PROVIDE A WRITTEN RESPONSE TO THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS, UH, IN REFERENCE TO TRAINING.

WE, UH, AGREE.

UH, ALTHOUGH I AGREE THAT, UH, TRAINING DOES TAKE OUR TIME AS WELL AS ADDITIONAL FUNDING, BUT I DO KNOW THAT MOBILE FIELDS, THE MOBILE FIELD FORCE TRAINING IS SOMETHING THAT WE WANT ALL OUR OFFICERS TO BE TRYING TO PAWN AND HAVE REFRESHERS UPON ON AN ANNUAL BASIS.

SO THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE'VE ALREADY COMPLETED AND WE CAN, WE'LL CONTINUE TO DO THAT.

UH, BUT LIKE I SAID, THERE ARE, UH, MULTIPLE RECOMMENDATIONS OF EQUIPMENT AND TRAINING, WHICH WE CONCUR WITH.

UH, I, I, WE WILL PROVIDE WRITTEN RESPONSES TO ALL 10 OF THOSE, BUT MOST OF THOSE ARE ONES THAT WE CONCUR WITH.

I WOULD APPRECIATE THAT I TRIED AUDIT AND FINANCE COMMITTEE, AND WHEN WE GET SOMETHING LIKE THIS, UH, DEPARTMENT, UM, YOU KNOW, THIS CASE, IT'S NOT THE AUDITOR, BUT THE OPO, BUT, BUT ESSENTIALLY IT'S AN AUDIT OF, OF WHAT AUDIT RECOMMENDATIONS GIVEN THE EXPERIENCES.

UM, WE DO GET WRITTEN, UM, RESPONSES AS TO HOW THINGS ARE GONNA, UM, BE IMPLEMENTED AND THE TIMETABLE, UM, DETAILING THAT.

SO IF YOU CAN PROVIDE THAT AS UP, UM, FOR EACH OF THESE RECOMMENDATIONS, I WOULD APPRECIATE THAT.

THANK YOU, CHIEF.

UM, ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? LOOKS LIKE COUNCIL MEMBER KELLY.

I JUST WANTED TO CLOSE WITH, I'M REALLY GLAD THAT WE ARE AT THE TABLE DISCUSSING THIS RIGHT NOW.

IT'S AN IMPORTANT, BUT IT FEELS LIKE AN INCOMPLETE CONVERSATION TO ME BECAUSE I LIKE YOU EXPECT APD TO PROTECT PEOPLE, ENGAGE IN PEACEFUL PROTESTS OR THE SAME TIME WE HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT SOME PEOPLE WERE NOT PEACEFUL AND IT'S JUST AS IMPORTANT IN THE COMMUNITY THAT THEY CONDUCT THEIR SELVES IN A WAY THAT FACILITATES MEANINGFUL NONVIOLENT CONVERSATIONS.

AND SO I'M REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO HEARING MORE ABOUT THE EDUCATION THAT THE OPO IS GOING TO DO AND OTHER WAYS THAT WE CAN HELP, UM, MAKE THOSE CONVERSATIONS HAPPEN IN THE COMMUNITY.

THANK YOU CHAIR.

THANK YOU, COUNCIL MEMBER KELLY.

AND I WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE THAT, YOU KNOW, THE TIME IS WELL PAST DUE FOR US TO, TO ENGAGE IN THOUGHTFUL, UM, GENUINE CONVERSATION ABOUT ALL OF OUR ACTIONS AND ALL OF OUR RESPONSIBILITIES AND ACCOUNTABILITY, FRANKLY, MOVING FORWARD.

UM, SO THANK YOU, CHIEF GAYE, THANK YOU, DIRECTOR MUSKET.

AND, UM, FOR JOINING US, WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

UM, AND SO NEXT, OH, I'M SORRY.

I DIDN'T, I'M LOOKING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION.

UH, MY, UH, MY APOLOGIES COUNCIL MEMBER, CASA THAT'S.

AND WE, THERE ARE A LOT OF LESSONS LEARNED.

SORRY.

I JUST WANTED TO HOLD MY LAST COUPLE OF QUESTIONS UNTIL THE OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS WERE DONE.

UH, CHIEF GAVE THE OTHER ISSUES THAT WERE RAISED WAS ABOUT, UH, THE SHOOTING OF THE LED PELLET GUNS FROM BOTH FROM A LONGER DISTANCE AND FROM A GREATER HEIGHT THAN, THAN IS ADVISABLE.

SO CAN YOU TALK BRIEFLY ABOUT THAT? AND THEN ALSO TALK ABOUT AFTER WE SAW SOME OF THE IMPACTS ON THE FIRST DAY, WHY THAT CONTINUED ON THE SECOND DAY? FIRST I WOULD SAY IS THAT WE DID LEARN A LOT IN REGARDS TO OUR RESPONSE TO THE PROTEST.

I DON'T THINK, UH, I THINK HIS CHIEF MANLEY AND CHIEFS ARE CALLING AND OTHERS ARE, IS THAT IT WAS AN UNPRECEDENTED EVENT

[00:55:01]

UH, I DO AND CAN SAY THAT WE DO NOT BELIEVE THAT LESS LEGALS ARE THE APPROPRIATE, UH, TOOL, UH, TO BE USED IN A CROWD SITUATION.

SO WE HAVE ALREADY MADE THE NECESSARY PIVOTS TO THAT IN REGARDS TO, UM, UH, ELEVATION, UH, TYPE ISSUES THAT WERE BROUGHT UP BY, UH, DIRECTOR OF MUSKEGON.

UH, WE CONCUR THAT, ALTHOUGH WE DO NOT TRAIN OR TEACH IN REFERENCE TO THAT, THE ELEVATED ASPECTS IS THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE PUT INTO OUR LESS LETHAL TRAINING FOR, FOR THE FUTURE.

JUST TO REFERENCE SOME OF THE COMMENTARY EARLIER.

I, I AGREE THAT WE WANT EVERYBODY IN THE COMMUNITY TO BE SAFE AND TO ACT AS RESPECTFULLY AS POSSIBLE.

ALSO AS THE CITY, WE REALLY HAVE THE MAXIMUM CONTROL OVER WHAT IT IS THAT WE DO AND WHAT WE CHOOSE TO DO.

AND I, I UNDERSTAND THAT BEING TOLD BASICALLY YOUR JOB IS TO BE EQUIVALENT OF A HUMAN SHIELD AROUND A BUILDING IS A VERY CHALLENGING SITUATION.

AND I, MYSELF QUESTION WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S REALLY THE APPROPRIATE TACTIC TO KEEPING BOTH OUR OFFICERS AND THE PUBLIC SAFE.

UM, BUT OBVIOUSLY I KNOW THAT AFTER ACTION REPORT IS BEING COMPILED BY THE DEPARTMENT.

AND I REALLY THINK THAT THAT AFTER ACTION REPORT WOULD ONLY REALLY BE COMPLETE IF YOU'RE ADDRESSING THESE SORTS OF ISSUES THAT ARE RAISED TODAY, HERE, CHIEF, AROUND WHY THE DECISIONS WERE MADE AROUND THOSE LESS LETHAL, HOW IT WAS THAT THOSE WERE USED AT THOSE ELEVATIONS AND DISTANCES.

UM, AND, AND TO TAKE A REAL REFLECTIVE LOOK, SELF-REFLECTIVE LOOK ABOUT WHY WE WOUND UP WITH SO MANY COMPLAINTS, UH, IN MY VIEW, UM, THIS CONVERSATION IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR US TO HAVE, BUT JUST THE NUMBERS OF THE OPO DISAGREEING WITH, UM, OVER 150 IN HER WORDS OF THE, ABOUT 170 CASES THAT WEREN'T FULLY INVESTIGATED AND DISAGREEING WITH 10 OF THE 11 DISCIPLINE DECISIONS.

THAT'S JUST TOO, IT'S JUST TOO MANY.

UM, THAT, THAT MEANS THAT WE'RE OFF.

THAT MEANS THAT EITHER, UM, OVERSIGHT ISN'T BEING AS BEING IGNORED OR THAT THOSE EXPECTATIONS AND PROTOCOL, AND ARE, WE HAVE TOO WIDE OF A GAP AND THAT GAP NEEDS TO BE CLOSED BECAUSE WHAT WE WOULD ANTICIPATE IS ONE OR TWO OR THREE OBJECTIONS, BUT A HUNDRED OVER 150 OF THE 170 OR OVER 10 OF THE 11 IN MY VIEW IS, IS TOO MANY.

UM, SO COMING OUT OF THIS, I, I DO THINK COMING UP WITH A STRONG AFTER-ACTION REPORT IS IMPORTANT.

I THINK LETTING THE COUNCIL KNOW OF THE 10 RECOMMENDATIONS BROUGHT FORWARD BY OPO, HOW MANY APD COULD DO WOULD BE AN IMPORTANT STEP.

UH, THE COUNCIL CAN ALSO IMPLEMENT THE PROPOSITION THAT WAS RECENTLY PASSED BY THE VOTERS TO GIVE ADDITIONAL AUTHORITY AND INDEPENDENCE TO OPO SO THAT THERE MAY BE FEWER INSTANCES OF, UM, SOME OF THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS WERE LIKE THAT LETTER NOT BEING IMPLEMENTED.

WE ALSO HAVE HAD CONVERSATIONS AS A COUNCIL ABOUT HAVING OUR POLICE OFFICERS AND INTERNAL AFFAIRS DO POLICE WORK, UM, GIVEN SOME OF THE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT NEEDING MORE POLICE OFFICERS, SUPERVISING POLICE WORKER, DOING POLICE WORK, WE COULD PUT THEM INTO THAT WORK AND HAVE CIVILIANS DO THIS INVESTIGATIVE WORK.

UM, AND I THINK ALSO WE COULD LOOK AT OUR POLICE UNION CONTRACT TO SEE WHAT CHANGES MIGHT BE APPROPRIATE, UM, SO THAT WE AREN'T, FOR EXAMPLE, RUSHING TO, UH, TO COMPLETE THESE INVESTIGATIONS IN 180 DAYS, IF THE DEPARTMENT DOESN'T HAVE THE RESOURCES OR TIME TO ADDRESS EACH OF THOSE ISSUES.

SO I THINK THAT THERE IS IMPORTANT WORK TO COME OUT OF THIS.

AND I APPRECIATE THE COMMITTEE TAKING THIS ITEM UP.

THANK YOU CHAIR, AND TO EVERYONE, BECAUSE THIS WAS A REALLY, IT'S A REALLY TRAUMATIC EVENT FOR MANY PEOPLE, BOTH WORKING AT THE CITY AND IN THE COMMUNITY.

AND IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO LEARN FROM IT AND DO RIGHT BY PEOPLE AND NOT JUST, AND NOT JUST MOVE PAST IT.

THANKS.

THANK YOU, COUNCIL MEMBER.

BRIEFING ON DISPATCH EQUITY AND OPTIMIZATION EFFICIENCY STUDY, FINAL REPORT AND RECOMMENDATIONS.

SO, UM, SO ITEM NUMBER TWO ON OUR AGENDA.

GIVE YOU'D THINK I'D BE READY.

UM, WE'RE GOING TO GET A, I'M SORRY.

THAT WAS ITEM NUMBER TWO.

I DON'T REMEMBER THREE IN OUR AGENDA

[3. Briefing on Dispatch Equity and Optimization Efficiency Study final report and recommendations.]

I'M SORRY.

UH, HARPER MEDICINE, DR.

SCOTT WILL BE PROVIDING THE PRESENTATION FOR THE, THIS PARTICULAR ITEM.

UH, YOU AND THE COUNSELOR WAS AN UPDATE ON THE STUDY THAT WE DISCUSSED LAST TIME AT THE BUDGET HEARINGS.

ACM ARIANA, DR.

S GOD, IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU.

IT'S BEEN AWHILE.

MAYOR PRO TEM.

IT'S A, IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE BACK, UH, THE, TO PROVIDE,

[01:00:01]

WE LOOK FORWARD TO IT.

I'M THE ONE THING I WILL, AS A TIMEKEEPER IN ME IS TAKEN NOTE IT'S THREE 12, AND WE HAVE AT LEAST ONE OTHER ITEM AND THEN A BRIEF DISCUSSION ON FUTURE ITEMS. SO IF WE CAN JUST MAKE SURE TO KEEP IT AS COMPACT AS POSSIBLE, I WILL BE HAPPY.

I APPRECIATE YOU, UH, AGAIN, UH, THANK YOU, MAYOR PRO JIM AND COMMITTEE MEMBERS, THE OPPORTUNITY TO UPDATES WHEN YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.

UH, AGAIN, THIS IS AN UPDATE REGARDING THE STUDY THAT WAS COMMISSIONED BY COUNSEL, UH, PRESENTED IN JULY, 2021 TO THE CITY.

AGAIN, UH, LOOKING AT THE EQUITY AND EFFICIENCY OF THE DISPATCH SYSTEMS AND, UH, THE RESPONSE, SIR, UH, MEDICAL RELATED SERVICES FOR AFD AND EMS. UH, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

AGAIN, AS A REMINDER, UH, THE STUDY INCLUDED 41 RECOMMENDATIONS.

THOSE WERE ASSIGNED A PRIORITY LEVEL AND IMPLEMENTATION TIMELINE, AND THEN THEY WERE GROUPED BY CATEGORIES, INCLUDING EQUITY, EFFICIENCY, REVENUE, GENERATION POLICY, OR OPERATIONS RELATED AND LABOR.

UH, WHAT WE ALSO DID BEYOND THAT IS TO IDENTIFY THOSE AS PRIORITY ITEMS, WHICH INVOLVE EQUITY EFFICIENCY, AS WELL AS ONES RELATING TO REVENUE GENERATION, THAT THEY HAD A PRIOR LEVEL OF MEDIUM OR HIGHER.

SO AGAIN, THIS IS A SLIDE THAT YOU ALL HAVE SEEN BEFORE.

UH, NOT MANY UPDATES HERE, BUT I DO WANT TO FOCUS ON A COUPLE OF THINGS.

UH, NUMBER ONE, WE ARE MEETING FOR THE FIRST TIME WITH THE PUBLIC SAFETY CHIEFS, UH, REGARDING THIS STUDY LATER THIS WEEK.

AND THERE'S TWO RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE ARE GOING TO FOCUS HEAVILY ON IN THIS FIRST MEETING.

ONE OF THOSE IS RECOMMENDATION NINE.

UH, ONE OF THE THEMES THAT WE SAW THROUGHOUT THE STUDY FROM THE CONSULTANTS, UH, WHICH INCLUDED EXPERTS FROM EMS, FIRE EXPERTS IN PUBLIC HEALTH, UH, FINANCE, ET CETERA, I WASN'T, THERE WAS A LACK OF COORDINATION AND COLLABORATION AMONGST THE PUBLIC SAFETY DEPARTMENTS, PARTICULARLY EMS FIRE, AS WELL AS MY OFFICE.

SO REALLY THE EARLY FOCUS IS GOING TO BE, HOW DO WE GET THESE TEAMS TO WORK TOGETHER, TO COLLABORATE, TO DEVELOP STRATEGY TOGETHER, UH, AND IDENTIFY OPPORTUNITIES FOR CONSOLIDATION IN SOME CIRCUMSTANCES, UH, BUT ALSO KEEPING AN EYE ON, UM, THE, UH, THE EQUITY EFFICIENCY AND EFFECTIVENESS OF THE SERVICES THAT ARE PROVIDED.

UM, WE SEE SOME, MANY OF THE OTHER RECOMMENDATIONS FOLLOWING THAT INITIAL, UH, DISCUSSION ON, ON HOW TO BUILD THAT COLLABORATION ACROSS THE DEPARTMENTS.

AND AGAIN, THIS IS ONE OF THE EARLY FOCUSES ON THE MEETING THIS WEEK WILL BE HOW TO, TO BUILD THAT COLLABORATIVE GROUPS.

UH, THE FIRST ONE WAS RELATED TO OPERATIONS.

THIS ONE IS REALLY, UH, COMMUNITY RISK REDUCTION INITIATIVES AND HOW WE BETTER ALIGN THOSE DEPARTMENTS WITH, UM, WITH EACH OTHER TO ENSURE THAT WE'RE MEETING THE GOALS OF THE COMMUNITY.

UH, AGAIN, THIS ONE RECOMMENDATION 36 IS REGARDING COMMUNITY EDUCATION.

AGAIN, THIS IS A FOLLOWUP TO RECOMMENDATION 34, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, THE BILLS, THE COLLABORATION THAT IDENTIFIES OPPORTUNITIES TO IMPLEMENT STRATEGIES, TO ACHIEVE SOME OF THE EQUITY ISSUES THAT WE KNOW THAT WE NEED, PARTICULARLY IN THE EASTERN CRESTA OF AUSTIN, AS WELL AS SOME OF THE, UH, OUTLINE PORTIONS OF TRAVIS COUNTY.

INDIVIDUALS DISPOSITION PER WEEK, UH, THROUGH THIS TELEHEALTH EFFORT.

UH, SO ON THE NEXT SLIDES, I HAVE SOME UPDATES BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN MOVEMENT ON SOME OF THESE ALREADY RECOMMENDATION 39, UH, WAS CONSIDERING INITIATING NINE 11 TELEHEALTH SERVICES FOR LOW ACUITY, NINE 11 CALLS, UH, BUT THE MEDIUM LEVEL PRIORITY IMPLEMENTATION OF ONE TO THREE YEARS, UH, THIS PARTICULAR ONE WAS FAST-FORWARDED, UH, GIVEN THE, THE SURGES THAT WE FACED AS WELL AS THE, THE WINTER STORM, UH, AND THAT WE'VE, UH, ALREADY BEGAN IMPLEMENTING THIS PROGRAM.

UH, THIS WAS ENHANCED BY THE BUDGET AMENDMENT THAT WAS PASSED BY COUNCIL, WHICH ADDED AN ADDITIONAL POSITION IN THREE ADDITIONAL PARAMEDIC PRACTITIONERS TO FURTHER ENHANCE THE ABILITY TO PROVIDE, UH, TELEHEALTH AND IN-PERSON SERVICES.

UH, TODAY WE'VE BEEN AVERAGING AROUND 200 TO 250

[01:05:01]

OUR HOPE IS THAT WE CAN CONTINUE THAT WE ARE NOW, NOW THAT HOSPITALIZATIONS AND THE ER IS, ARE LESS THAN HAVE BEEN.

WE'RE TAKING A LOOK BACK REVIEWING THE, THE CURRENT GUIDELINES TO ENSURE THAT, UH, WE ARE DOING THINGS SAFELY AND TO ENSURE THAT WE CAN SCALE THE CURRENT EFFORTS GOING FORWARD.

SO THIS ONE IS WELL UNDERWAY.

NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE RECOMMENDATION 14 WAS TO REVISE, UH, EMS, UH, CHARITY CARE POLICY.

UH, THIS WAS COMPLETED AND APPROVED BY COUNCIL ON, UH, SEPTEMBER THE SECOND.

AND, UH, IT CERTAINLY DISCUSSED THIS, UH, LATER IN QUESTIONS, IF THERE ARE FURTHER QUESTIONS, I'D LIKE, UH, CHIEF BROWN IS, IS ON THE LINE ALSO WITH, UH, FOR QUESTIONS ON THIS PARTICULAR ITEM, AS WELL AS THE OTHER EMS RELATED REVENUE ITEMS. NEXT SLIDE.

UH, THIS SLIDE AGAIN, UH, WAS TO REVIEW, UH, EMS BILLING PRACTICES FOR COMMERCIAL PAYERS, UH, THIS RECOMMENDATION 15 MEDIUM TO HIGH LEVEL IMPLEMENTATION TIMEFRAME OF SIX TO 12 MONTHS AGAIN, THIS HAD TO DO WITH, UH, SOME OF THE ISSUES ASSOCIATED WITH THE COMPARISONS WITH OTHER MAJOR CITIES.

UH, WHEN WE LOOK AT DALLAS, HOUSTON AND FORT WORTH, I, WHICH WERE THE COMPARISON CITIES, THEY AVERAGED ABOUT, UH, $802 FOR A PRIVATE PAYER, UH, IN TERMS OF, UH, COLLECTIONS.

WHEREAS, UH, UH, THE CITY OF BOSTON IS $367.

SO WE DO THE CALCULATION BASED UPON THE NUMBER OF, UH, UH, TRANSPORTS IN 2020.

UH, THIS IS SOMEWHERE AROUND $8.3 MILLION.

UH, IF THE CITY OF AUSTIN WAS ABLE TO ACHIEVE EQUITY WITH THOSE OTHER CITIES, UH, PROVIDING, UH, BILLING FOR INSURANCE PROVIDERS THAT THE $802.

NEXT SLIDE PLEASE RECOMMENDATION 16 WAS CONSIDERING IMPLEMENTING A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE FOR AMBULANCE TRANSPORT.

UH, THIS WAS A MEDIUM TO HIGH PRIORITY WITH AN IMPLEMENTATION TIME DURING THE ZERO SIX MONTHS.

AGAIN, THIS HAD TO DO WITH A, UM, THE AMOUNT BILLED BY OFF THE TRAVIS COUNTY EMS AS COMPARED TO THE PEER CITIES IDENTIFIED BY THE STUDY GROUP.

UH, IN SPEAKING WITH, UH, CHIEF BROWN, THERE WAS A PLAN FOR INITIATING A COST OF SERVICE REVIEW FOR FALL OF 2021.

AS YOU RECALL, UH, PART OF THE, UH, THE, UH, PASSING OF THE BUDGET WAS AN INCREASE IN, IN THE, UH, THE FEES FOR AMBULANCE SERVICE.

THIS WAS AT EIGHT INCREASE, WHICH WAS ALLOWABLE WITHIN THE CURRENT COSTS OF SERVICE THAT THE EMS DEPARTMENT HAD.

SO AGAIN, THEY PLAN ON A NEW COST OF SERVICE ANALYSIS FOR FYI, UH, 22 NEXT LUCKY'S, UH, RECOGNITION 11 CONSIDER THE ADDITION OF HEALTHCARE FINANCE EXPERTISE TO ATC EMS, AGAIN, A MEDIUM PRIORITY LEVEL IMPLEMENTATION TIMEFRAME, ONE TO THREE YEARS.

UH, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, JASPER BROWN IS HERE FOR, UH, FOR QUESTIONS RELATED TO THIS ONE AS WELL.

BILLS, UH, COST RECOVERY FOR THE SERVICES THAT ARE BEING PROVIDED.

UH, RECOMMENDATION 13 WAS A REVIEW ATC EMS BILLING PRACTICES, AGAIN, SIMILAR TO THE OTHERS MEDIUM PRIORITY LEVEL IMPLEMENTATION TIME FROM ZERO SIX MONTHS.

UH, AND AGAIN, THIS IS PART OF THE PROCESS, THE INITIAL STEP BEING, UH, THE COST OF SERVICE ANALYSIS, UH, AND, UH, ADDRESSING THE, THE BILLING PRACTICES AS A WHOLE, AS IT RELATES TO THAT.

WE'VE HEARD BEFORE ABOUT SOME OF THE CHALLENGES, UH, THAT ARE, ARE FACED IN THE, IN THE BILLING OFFICE.

UH, AGAIN, JASPER BROWN IS HERE TO PROVIDE COMMENTS ON THAT IF OTHER FURTHER QUESTIONS ON THOSE ITEMS. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE PREMONITION 35 WAS COMPLETION OF THE OFFICER, THE CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER REGISTRATION WITH THE CENTERS FOR MEDICARE MEDICAID SERVICES, MEDIAN PRIOR LEVEL OF THE TIMEFRAME OF ONE TO THREE YEARS.

UH, THE, UH, CMS REGISTRATION PROCESS AS A MEDICAL PRACTICE HAS BEEN COMPLETED.

UH, THERE ARE NEXT STEPS, UH, INVOLVED IN FULLY ADDRESSING THIS PARTICULAR RECOMMENDATION.

UH, THE FIRST, UH, OR THE NEXT STEP IS TO IDENTIFY A ELECTRONIC HEALTH RECORD THAT CURRENTLY OUR EMS PHYSICIANS AND PRACTITIONERS UTILIZE THE, UH, THE ELECTRONIC MEDICAL PLATFORM WITH EMS, UH, TO DOCUMENT INTERACTIONS.

BUT THAT DOCUMENT IS, UH, NOT DESIGNED TO DO PHYSICIAN AND ADVANCED PRACTICE PROVIDER BILLING.

SO WE WERE WORKING, UH, IN COLLABORATION WITH APH, AS WELL AS PUBLIC SAFETY WELLNESS TO DETERMINE IF WE CAN UTILIZE A COMMON PLATFORM ACROSS THE CLINICAL SERVICES FOR THE CITY OF AUSTIN, WHICH WILL THEN ALLOW US TO CONTRACT WITH A BILLING SERVICE TO PROVIDE, UH,

[01:10:01]

SO THERE'S SOME ADDITIONAL RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WERE NOT INCLUDED IN THE PRIORITY ITEMS, BUT THAT I HAVE UPDATES ALL IN.

I WANT TO GO THROUGH A RECOMMENDATION FOR WHAT'S CONSIDERED ADDING AN EMS RESEARCH FUNCTION TO, UH, THE OFFICE OF THE CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER.

UH, THIS WAS FUNDED BY COUNCIL FOR FYI 22.

MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THIS POSITION IS FUNDED TO BEGIN IN JANUARY OF 22.

UH, SO THIS ONE IS, IS PARTIALLY COMPLETE RECOMMENDATION SIX, AND I CONSIDER SCIENCE HEALTH EQUITY STAFF MEMBER, THE OFFICE OF THE CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER.

AGAIN, THIS WAS FUNDED BY COUNCIL, THE BUDGET AMENDMENT, AND AGAIN, A, A JANUARY TIMEFRAME FOR, UH, FOR HIRING IMPLEMENTATION, THEIR RECOMMENDATION EIGHT, UH, WAS IT, UH, AUSTRALIA'S COUNTY EMS, AND THE ALSO CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER SHOULD CONSIDER FURTHER COLLABORATION, UH, TO DEVELOP AD HOC AND, UH, STATIC REPORTS OR, UH, CLINICAL SERVICES.

UH, AGAIN, THE, UH, DATA MANAGER POSITION WAS FUNDED BY COUNCIL AND BY AN INDIVIDUAL HAS IDENTIFIED IN HIGHER-ED AND WE'LL START NEXT WEEK.

SO THAT ONE IS, UH, IN THE PROCESS OF COMPLETION.

ALL RIGHT, NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.

THERE ARE SOME ADDITIONAL ITEMS THAT HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED BY THE PUBLIC SAFETY CHIEFS, AND THERE, THERE ARE LIKELY TO BE OTHERS, UH, THAT ARE REALLY HIGH IMPACT ITEMS THAT ARE GOING TO REQUIRE SIGNIFICANT REVIEW COLLABORATION DEBATES IN CONSIDERATION BEFORE REPORTING BACK TO, TO THIS, THIS GROUP.

AND ONE OF THOSE IS RECOMMENDATION ONE, THE CITY COULD, SHOULD CONSIDER ESTABLISHING A POSITION OF PUBLIC SAFETY DIRECTOR.

UH, THIS CONCEPT WAS TO, UH, BRING TOGETHER AFD AND EMS UNDER THIS PUBLIC SAFETY DIRECTOR WHO WOULD THEN REPORT TO, UH, THE ACM FOR SAFETY, AS IT MEANS TO, TO TRY TO ENCOURAGE AND INCREASE COLLABORATION BETWEEN THE DEPARTMENTS, UH, RECOMMENDATION 17 AFD SHOULD CONSIDER IMPLEMENTATION OF COST RECOVERY PROGRAM TO OFFSET OPERATIONAL COSTS, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS 20 AND 22, UH, WERE TO, UH, HAVE AFD AND EMS CONSIDER ALTERNATE STAFFING IN PARTICULAR, UTILIZING CIVILIANS AS CALL-TAKERS WITH SUPERVISION OF FIRE AND EMS SWORN PERSONNEL, UH, RATHER THAN THE CURRENT MODEL THAT UTILIZES ALL SMART PERSONNEL FOR THESE FUNCTIONS REGULATION.

21 IS CONSIDERATION OF CROSS TRAINING, AFD, DISPATCHERS, AND MEDICAL PRIORITY DISPATCH TO ALLOW BUFFER, UH, WHEN EMS IS, UH, MEETING BACKUP.

UH, CURRENTLY THE, UH, THERE ARE NINE FTES IF I UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY, NINE FTES PER SHIFT ON THE EMS SIDE, NINE FTES ON THE FIRESIDE PER SHIFT, UH, AND OBVIOUSLY, UH, MANY, MANY MORE EMS CALLS THAN FIRE CALLS.

UH, SO THERE IS, UH, YOU KNOW, IN THE OPINION OF THE CONSULTING GROUPS THAT NEED TO LOOK INTO CROSS-TRAIN TO ALLOW FOR SOME BACKUP SERVICES OF AFD, SHOULD THE EMS SIDE OF, OF THE DISPATCH CENTER BECOME OVERWHELMED CALLS HOLDING AND FINALLY RECOMMENDATION 23 CONSIDER CONSOLIDATING FIRING EMS, DISPATCH OPERATIONS INTO A SINGLE EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS DEPARTMENT.

AND ALL OF THESE, UH, ITEMS ON THIS LIST ARE, UH, LONG-TERM PLANNING, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS, AND REALLY REQUIRE A THOROUGH REVIEW INPUT FROM EACH OF THEIR DEPARTMENTS, UH, AND PERHAPS, UH, CONSULT EXTERNAL CONSULTANTS, PRIVATE REPORTING BACK TO THE COMMITTEE ON THESE PARTICULAR RECOMMENDATIONS, UH, WITH THAT, I'M HAPPY TO TAKE QUESTIONS.

THANK YOU, DR.

SCOTT.

AND YOU DID SAY THAT, UH, CHIEF BROWN IS WITH US AS WELL.

YES MA'AM.

OF THE OPTIMIZATION STUDY.

COLLEAGUES, ANYBODY HAVE QUESTIONS? UM, COUNCIL MEMBER ALTER AND THEN COUNCIL MEMBER KITCHEN.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

UM, SO THIS IS A STUDY THAT WE FIRST SAW IN, I THINK, JULY OR EARLY AUGUST, UM, AROUND THE BUDGET TIME.

UM, AND I'M REALLY PLEASED TO SEE PROGRESS.

UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S VERY RARE THAT WE GET A STUDY BACK AND THAT WE'RE ALREADY BEGINNING TO SEE, YOU KNOW, THAT PIECES ARE FUNDED, UM, AND THAT WE'RE TAKING START TAKING CERTAIN STEPS.

UM, I THINK THIS IS, UM, REALLY IMPORTANT.

UM, I, I THINK MY FIRST QUESTION MAY BE FOR ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER, ARIANA, WHO I THINK IS IN THE CHAMBERS.

UM, SO I HAD A BUDGET WRITER, UM, THAT WAS CO-SPONSORED BY, UM, COUNCIL MEMBERS, KITCHEN TOBO FUNGIS AND ELLIS, UM, HAVING TO DO WITH THE EMS FILLING PROCESS AND ALSO WITH IMPLEMENTATION

[01:15:01]

UM, I APPRECIATE THAT THIS OVERVIEW IS REALLY HELPING US TO SEE, UM, THESE ARE THE HIGHER OR MEDIUM HIGH PRIORITIES, AND THESE ARE THE PRIORITIZATION.

UM, WHAT I'D LIKE TO KNOW FROM ACM ARIANO IS, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS THE PROCESS FOR REPORTING BACK TO US? WHAT IS VIABLE AND WHAT IS FEASIBLE? UM, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THERE'S, THERE'S DIFFERENT PRIORITIZATION ON THE TIMING.

UM, BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT I'M UNDERSTANDING THAT WE GAVE SOME DIRECTION IN MY BUDGET RIDER.

UM, BUT THAT WAS A LITTLE BIT MORE FOCUSED ON THE BILLING SIDE.

UM, BUT, BUT THERE'S SOME, SOME THINGS IN HERE THAT WILL HELP US TO TRANSFORM THAT GO BEYOND THE FINANCIAL, BUT ALSO THOSE FINANCIAL THINGS ARE REALLY KEY IF WE'RE GONNA ACHIEVE OUR GOAL OF HAVING THAT ADDITIONAL STAFFING, ET CETERA.

UM, SO, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHO'S IN CHARGE BECAUSE THE CENTRAL PROBLEM IS THE LACK OF COLLABORATION ACROSS, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SPECIFIC THINGS FOR EMS FOR BILLING, BUT THERE'S ALSO THIS OVERARCHING THING.

SO I THINK ACM, ARIANA, I'D LIKE TO UNDERSTAND FROM YOU, UM, WHAT THAT REPORT BACK PROCESS IS TO COUNCIL AND WHAT YOUR PLANS ARE FOR IMPLEMENTING THINGS FOR MOVING FORWARD.

THANK YOU, COUNCIL MEMBER ALTAR, AGAIN, RAY ARIANO ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER.

UH, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'LL BE DOING IS CERTAINLY TO TRACK THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT ARE COMING FROM THIS PARTICULAR STUDY.

UH, AS DR.

SCOTT MENTIONED, WE HAVE OUR PRELIMINARY MEETING WITH THE PUBLIC SAFETY CHIEFS, AND THEN AS WE MOVE THROUGH OUR PROCESS, THERE MAY BE ADDITIONAL DEPARTMENTS, UH, THAT MAY BECOME INVOLVED.

UH, IT'S OUR INTENT, IT'S MY INTENT, UH, CERTAINLY THAT AS WE GET THIS OFF THE GROUND AND MOVING, UH, TO PROVIDE PERIODIC UPDATES TO THE PUB, TO THE MEMBERS OF COUNCIL, I THINK SEPARATELY, THERE'S A, THERE'S A SEPARATE, UH, PROCESS IN TERMS OF, UH, FOLLOWING UP ON BUBBA, ON BUDGET, UH, DIRECTION AND SO FORTH AMENDMENTS.

HOWEVER, GIVEN THE CLOSE, UM, OVERLAP, IF YOU WILL, OF THE INFORMATION THAT'S WITHIN THE BUDGET WRITER THAT YOU PUT FORWARD, AS WELL AS THIS INFORMATION, WE WILL TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE ARE COVERED IN BOTH REPORTS, REPORTS RELATED TO THE DISPATCH EQUITY AND OPTIMIZATION PROJECT, AS WELL AS, UH, THAT MAY BE REQUIRED WHEN WE DO OUR NORMAL BUDGET TRACKING, UH, FOR THE BUDGET.

IT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, IT'D BE HELPFUL IF THERE ARE EVEN JUST SOME REGULAR REPORTS THAT WE CAN SEE HOW THIS IS MOVING, UM, AS WELL, UM, YOU KNOW, IN OUR BUDGET WRITER DOES CALL FOR A REPORT TO AUDIT AND FINANCE, WHICH WE'LL NEED TO WORK WITH YOU, UM, ON SCHEDULING, UM, AS WELL.

UM, JUST, JUST REALLY WANT TO UNDERSCORE THAT IF THE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM WAS THIS COLLABORATION, UNLESS THERE'S LEADERSHIP AT THE ACM LEVEL ON THIS, MOVING THIS FORWARD, IT WILL NOT HAPPEN TO THE DEGREE TO WHICH THE POTENTIAL IS.

AND I REALLY WANT TO UNDERSCORE THAT THE POTENTIAL IS GREAT JUST FROM THE FINANCIAL IMPROVEMENTS ALONE, LET ALONE ALL OF THE HEALTH IMPROVEMENTS FOR OUR, FOR OUR COMMUNITY.

UM, AND THEN MY, UM, SECOND QUESTION, AND THEN I'LL PASS IT ON TO, I GUESS, COUNCIL MEMBER KITCHEN ALSO HAD HER HAND UP, UM, TO, UH, CHIEF BROWN.

UM, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE PIECES IN HERE, UM, ON THE EMS BILLING.

UM, CAN YOU PROVIDE AN UPDATE ON WHERE WE ARE AT WITH ADDRESSING, UM, THERE WAS REVENUE FIXES FOR THE EXISTING PRACTICES, AND THEN MAYBE SAY SOMETHING ABOUT, UM, THE COMMERCIAL PAYERS.

I KNOW THAT WE'VE DONE THE, THE COMMUNITY CARE.

I THINK IT WAS CALLED PIECE OF IT, BUT THERE WERE SOME JUST BASIC THINGS THAT WERE GOING ON WITH THE EMS BILLING SYSTEM AS WELL.

UM, AND THEN THE COMMERCIAL PAYER PART, WHICH HAS A SEVEN TO TWO, $10 MILLION LIST AS POTENTIAL.

IN GOING INTO FISCAL NEXT FISCAL YEAR, WE WON'T HAVE TO DO THE CATCH-UP WORK.

AGAIN, UH, CHIEF BROWN, UM, AUSTIN, TRAVIS COUNTY EMS. UH, FIRST OF ALL, THE THANK YOU, UH, COUNSEL, UM, THE CHARITY CARE, WHICH PASSED ON SEPTEMBER 2ND, EXPANDED THE CHARITY CARE PROGRAM.

UH, WE IMMEDIATELY PUT TOGETHER A TEAM TO GO BACK AND REVIEW THIS PAST FISCAL YEAR CAUSE WE MADE A MODIFICATION TO THE, UM, FEES FOR THIS FISCAL YEAR.

AND THAT SUBMISSION TO THE STATE IS SEPTEMBER 30TH.

AND SO OUR TEAM IS PUTTING TOGETHER AND WE'LL BE SUBMITTING TO THE STATE.

I FINAL NUMBER COMES SEPTEMBER 30TH.

UH, WE ANTICIPATE SOMEWHERE I, AS THE CONSULTANT SAID BETWEEN FOUR AND $12 MILLION COULD, COULD GO INTO THAT PROGRAM.

THERE IS A, A, UM, A PORTION THAT WE WILL NOT RECEIVE.

THEY, UM, THEY TAKE ABOUT 25% OFF OF WHAT YOU TURN IN.

UM, WE WILL NOT RECEIVE THAT UNTIL OCTOBER OF 2022, WHICH WILL BE FOR THE FISCAL YEAR 23 BUDGET.

WE WILL KNOW THAT AMOUNT ABOUT IN AUGUST, BUT THAT CHECK FOR THAT DOES NOT COME TO OCTOBER.

SO WE'RE ALREADY IN PROGRESS FOR THAT

[01:20:01]

WE'LL ALREADY BE AHEAD OF THE GAME.

AND AS, AS THE BILLS, THERE'S, THE CALLS ARE ENTERED INTO THE BILLING SYSTEM, THAT IF THEY MEET THE CHARITY CARE GUIDELINES, THERE'LL BE PLACED IN THAT PROGRAM.

AS FAR AS THE COMMERCIAL PAYER, WE'RE BRINGING IN THE OUTSIDE CONSULTANT OF A COMPANY CALLED PWW, UH, TO REVIEW OUR ENTIRE BILLING PRACTICES.

UM, THE CONSULTANT GROUP DIDN'T REALLY DIVE INTO THE BILLING PRACTICES VERY MUCH.

UH, DIDN'T COME ONSITE, DIDN'T REVIEW ALL OF OUR BILLING PROCESSES.

THEY WILL COME IN AND DO A TOP TO BOTTOM REVIEW OF ALL OUR BILLING PROCESSES AND GIVE US ANY RECOMMENDATIONS.

AND AS SOON AS THEY DO THAT, UH, WE'LL REPORT BACK TO COUNCIL AND IMMEDIATELY WITH WHAT WE'RE DOING TO ENHANCE THOSE BILLING FEATURES TO, UH, TAKE FULL ACCOUNT OF THE COMMERCIAL PAY, UH, ABILITY.

UM, AS, UH, DR.

SCOTT MENTIONED, UH, WE DID ALREADY INCREASE THE FEES UP TO THE ALLOWABLE LIMIT.

THAT WAS, UM, OUR SMART COST OF SERVICE CURRENTLY STATED.

UM, AND FOR THE, UM, UH, PER, UH, ANY, ANY PERSONS THAT ARE TRANSPORTED FROM OUTSIDE OF AUSTIN OR TRAVIS COUNTY, UH, TO THE FULL BILLING AMOUNT ALLOWABLE, AND WE'LL BE DOING A COST OF SERVICE HERE AT THE BEGINNING OF, UH, THE FIRST QUARTER OF THIS FISCAL YEAR.

SO THAT'S KIND OF AN UPDATE ON THE BILLING PROCESSES AND WHERE WE'RE AT AND WHAT I INTEND TO GIVE A, UH, UPDATE TO COUNCIL ON SEVERAL OF THESE ITEMS IN A MEMO THAT'LL COME THROUGH, UH, ACM OUR YANOS OFFICE, UH, ONCE WE GET OUR FINAL NUMBERS AT THE END OF SEPTEMBER.

UM, I APPRECIATE THAT, UM, OUR BUDGET WRITER DID CALL FOR AN UPDATE WITHIN 30 DAYS, AND I THINK WE'RE JUST PAST THAT.

SO, UM, I, HOPEFULLY WE WILL SEE THAT MEMO SOON, UM, ALSO RELATED TO THE BACKLOG, UM, AS WELL.

THANK YOU, COUNCIL MEMBER KITCHEN.

UM, THANK YOU.

AND THANK YOU FOR THAT UPDATE.

PROVIDE SOME ADDITIONAL COVERAGE THAT WE'LL BE ABLE TO OFFER MORE BROADLY.

COUNT, UH, COUNSELOR WERE ULTRA FOR, UM, UH, FOLLOWING UP WITH THAT, AND I THINK IT WILL BE IMPORTANT FOR AUDIT AND FINANCE, AS YOU MENTIONED, UH, TO REALLY STAY ON TOP OF THAT.

I APPRECIATE THE EFFORTS THAT, UM, THAT, UM, UH, EMS IS PURSUING.

IT'S REALLY GOING TO BE, I, I REALLY APPRECIATED THE BUDGET RIDER BECAUSE, UM, I THINK IT'S GONNA BE A POTENTIAL GAME CHANGER FROM A REVENUE PERSPECTIVE, UH, FOR OUR CITY.

SO THANK YOU ALL FOR THAT.

UM, MY QUESTION, I'M GOING TO TURN MY QUESTION TO THAT TELE-HEALTH RECOMMENDATION THAT MAY BE FOR YOU, DR.

S SCOTT.

I'M ALSO EXCITED TO HEAR THAT WE HAVE ALREADY PUT IN PLACE TELE-HEALTH SERVICES AND THE 9 1 1 CENTER.

UM, I'M WANTING TO UNDERSTAND A LOT MORE DETAILS RELATED TO THAT.

WE PROBABLY DON'T HAVE TIME FOR ALL MY QUESTIONS NOW, BUT CAN YOU JUST GENERALLY SPEAK, DID I, DID I HEAR YOU THAT THIS IS ALREADY IMPLEMENTED THAT IT IS A PILOT AT THE MOMENT? OR WOULD YOU SAY YOU HAVE FULLY IMPLEMENTED AS LESS BY FIRST QUESTION? UM, AND THEN I WOULD LIKE TO UNDERSTAND HOW IT USED IN TERMS OF, FOR WHICH CALLS FOR ALL CALLS ONLY AT CERTAIN TIMES, UH, THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO THAT'S A FAIR AMOUNT OF QUESTIONS, AND I KNOW THAT OUR CHAIRS, UM, HAS OTHER THINGS THAT WE NEED TO GET TO.

SO CAN YOU JUST GIVE ME A HIGH LEVEL RESPONSE NOW, AND THEN I'D LIKE TO TALK WITH YOU FURTHER, UH, AND GET INTO DETAILS ON, ON HOW WE ARE, UH, USING TELEHEALTH IN THIS SETTING.

THANK YOU, COUNCIL MEMBER KITCHEN.

UM, SO IT'S, I REFERRED TO AS A PARTIAL IMPLEMENTATION, WE'VE HAD LIMITED STAFF TO SUPPORT IT.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE, WE CAN'T OFFER A 24 7 AT THIS STAGE AND PRIMARILY, UH, WHAT HAPPENS NOW IS THAT, UH, THESE, UH, TELEHEALTH CASES ARE REFERRED FROM THE AMBULANCE WHO MAY BE ON THE SCENE, UH, COMMUNITY HEALTH PARAMEDICS IN SOME CIRCUMSTANCES, UH, REFERRED DIRECTLY FROM THE CALL TAKER.

SO, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW WE'RE, THEY TRY TO IDENTIFY CASES THAT MAY BE ABLE TO BE DISPOSITIONED WITHOUT TRANSPORT, NOT TO THE HOSPITAL.

UH, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE FREQUENT CALLS, MAYBE, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY NEEDS A PRESCRIPTION FOR A MEDICATION REFILLED.

UH, SOMETIMES THEY HAVE LOW ACUITY COMPLAINTS, SORE THROAT, UH, THIS TYPE OF THING, AND IT HAPPENS RELATIVELY FREQUENTLY.

SO THERE ARE, THERE ARE MANY CASES THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY DISPOSITION EITHER WITH NO FURTHER HEALTHCARE NEEDED OR REFER THEM TO AN URGENT CARE PRIMARY CARE OFFICE FOR THAT CARE, WHICH OBVIOUSLY SAVES A GREAT DEAL OF MONEY TO, TO PEOPLE WHO ARE UTILIZING THAT SERVICE.

OUR GOAL IS REALLY TO HAVE THE TELEHEALTH RESOURCE AVAILABLE 24 HOURS A DAY, SEVEN DAYS A WEEK.

AND WE ANTICIPATE THAT ONCE WE WERE ABLE TO HIRE THE PARAMEDIC PRACTITIONERS, ADDITIONAL POSITION, AS WELL AS POTENTIALLY WORKING WITH A TELE HEALTH PROVIDER TO

[01:25:01]

UM, SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE GOAL NOW, AND I'M CERTAINLY HAPPY TO MEET WITH YOU AND YOUR OFFICE TO TALK ABOUT DETAILS FOR.

OKAY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

AND I ASSUME IT'S PHYSICAL HEALTH SERVICES AT THE MOMENT, RIGHT? NOT BEHAVIORAL HEALTH, THAT'S CORRECT.

WE'RE, WE'RE COVERING, UH, PHYSICAL HEALTH.

UH, OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE, UH, SOME OTHER COMPONENTS THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO, TO PROVIDE, UH, MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES, BUT, UH, NOT PART OF THE PROGRAM THAT, THAT WE'RE DOING AGAIN.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COLLEAGUES.

THAT'S GREAT.

I REALLY APPLAUD YOU FOR GETTING, UM, GETTING THAT UP AND RUNNING.

AND, UH, WE'LL LOOK FORWARD TO TALKING WITH YOU FURTHER, UH, ABOUT THE DETAILS AROUND THE PROGRAM.

WELL, THANK YOU, DR.

SCOTT.

THANK YOU, CHIEF BROWN.

UH, WE DIDN'T GET TO SEE YOUR FACE, BUT THANK YOU ALSO FOR JOINING US CHIEF BAKER, ACM, ARIANA

[4. Briefing on HB 1535 regarding medical use of low-THC cannabis in certain patients, including City employees.]

MAYOR PRO TEM.

IF YOU'RE READY, I CAN TEE UP THE, UH, FOURTH, UH, ITEM ON YOUR AGENDA RELATED TO CAN GO AHEAD AND BRING UP THE FIRST OF THE PRESENTATIONS, UH, COUNCIL MEMBERS.

UH, THE FOURTH ITEM THAT YOU HAVE ON YOUR AGENDA RELATES TO HB 1535, WHICH REGARDS THE, UH, MEDICAL USE OF LOW LEVEL THC CANNABIS, UH, FOR CERTAIN PATIENTS THIS AFTERNOON, WHAT STAFF WILL DO IS PROVIDE AN UPDATE OR A BRIEFING ON WHAT HB 1535, UH, IS, AND SOME OF THE CONTEXT BEHIND IT.

AND THEN I'VE ASKED STAFF, UH, STARTING WITH THE HR DEPARTMENT TO PROVIDE A PRESENTATION IN TERMS OF THE CITY'S, UH, DRUG TESTING POLICIES, UH, FIRST WITH HRD TO COVER MOSTLY, UH, WELL, ALL CITYWIDE EMPLOYEES THAT MIGHT BE AFFECTED BY THIS, AND THEN TO HAVE THE PUBLIC SAFETY, UH, DEPARTMENTS, UH, SPEAK SPECIFICALLY TO THEIR, UH, DEPARTMENTAL POLICIES.

AND SO WITH THAT, I'D ASK, UH, UH, INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS, OFFICER BRIE FRANCO TO, UH, EXPLAIN WHAT HB 1535 IS GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYONE, UH, MAYOR PRO TEM COUNCIL MEMBERS, BRIEF BRONCO, AND OUR GOVERNMENT RELATIONS OFFICER FOR STEVE AUSTIN.

I'M GOING TO REALLY QUICKLY GO THROUGH THIS, CAUSE I THINK YOU GUYS ARE PRETTY FAMILIAR WITH HB 1535.

IT SHOULD BE 13, 15 35 BUILDS UPON THE PASSAGE OF THE TEXAS COMPASSIONATE USE ACT, WHICH WAS PASSED BY THE TEXAS LEGISLATURE IN 2015, THAT ALLOWED FOR THE ADMINISTRATION OF THC TO CERTAIN PATIENTS, AND ALSO STARTED THE MANAGING THE LICENSING OF ORGANIZATIONS THAT COULD DISPENSE.

AND, UM, TO THOSE PHARMACISTS THAT WERE AUTHORIZED THC, UM, AS OF AUGUST, 2021, THERE'S ABOUT 408 PHYSICIANS APPROVED BY DPS TO PRESCRIBE, TO PRESCRIBE LOW LEVEL THC AND ABOUT 8,200 PATIENTS LISTED BY THEIR PHYSICIANS IN THE COMPASSIONATE USE REGISTRY.

WELL, WHETHER WE WENT ONE TOO FAST, THANK YOU.

UH, HB 1535 WAS PASSED THIS SESSION TO EXPAND UPON THAT LAW BY A REPRESENTATIVE FLICK AND SENATOR SCHWERTNER.

IT EXPANDS MEDICAL CONDITIONS FOR WHICH LOW-LEVEL THC CAN BE PRESCRIBED TO INCLUDE THOSE WITH POST-TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER.

THE BILL ORIGINALLY STARTED OUT TO ONLY BE POST-TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER FOR VETERANS, AND THEN THAT LANGUAGE WAS DROPPED ON THE HOUSE FLOOR.

THE LANGUAGE HAS SAID FOR VETERANS, SO ANYBODY EXPERIENCING POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER CAN NOW BENEFIT FROM THIS PROGRAM AS WELL AS EXPAND IT TO ALL FORMS OF CANCER.

UH, PRIOR LEGISLATION ONLY ALLOWED IT FOR TERMINAL CANCER AND THERE WERE ALSO BE MEDIC MEDICAL CONDITIONS.

THERE'LL BE APPROVED AS PART OF A RESEARCH PROGRAM DEVELOPED IN THE BILL.

IT INCREASED THE LEVEL OF THC FROM 0.5 TO 1% BY WEIGHT.

AND THEN, UM, IT ESTABLISHED A COMPASSIONATE USE INSTITUTIONAL REVIEW BOARD TO EVALUATE PROPOSED RESEARCH PROGRAMS TO STUDY THE MEDICAL USE AND SEE IF THERE'S OTHER, UM, RECOMMENDED MEDICAL USES OF LOW LEVEL THC.

THAT SHOULD BE ALLOWED.

SO WHILE THIS BILL WAS EFFECTIVE, SEPTEMBER 1ST, 2021, THERE ARE STILL SOME RULES THAT NEED TO BE DEVELOPED FOR THE BILL.

UM, AND THAT'S ONE BY THE, FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE HEALTH SERVICES TO ESTABLISH THAT REVIEW BOARD.

AND THEN DPS WILL ALSO HAVE TO AMEND ITS RULES REGARDING THE CULTIVATION PROCESSING AND DISPENSING OF, UM, THE LOW-LEVEL THC.

SO THOSE HAVEN'T COME OUT YET.

THEY'RE IN PROCESS, UM, FOR THIS BILL TO REALLY HAVE THE FULL EFFECT

[01:30:01]

OF THE LAW.

AND I THINK THAT'S THE LAST SITE AND, UM, I WILL NOW TURN IT BACK TO, UH, ACM RE ARIANA.

AND WHILE WE'RE IN, WHILE WE'RE BRINGING UP THE SECOND SLIDE, WHICH WILL HAVE THE SLIDES FOR ALL THE DEPARTMENTS THAT I MENTIONED, I'LL INTRODUCE, UH, UH, DIRECTOR, UH, JULIA HAYES FROM HRD DEPARTMENT, GOOD AFTERNOON, MAYOR PRO TEM AND COMMITTEE MEMBERS, COUNCIL, JULIA HAYES, AND HUMAN RESOURCES JUST WANTED TO PROVIDE SOME INFORMATION RELATIVE TO HOW THIS IMPACTS OUR ALCOHOL AND DRUG PROGRAM.

AND JUST GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF DETAILS ABOUT THE HRD PROCESS FOR NON-SWORN EMPLOYEES, FOR ALCOHOL AND DRUG TESTING, IF WE COULD MOVE TO THE NEXT SLIDE.

SO FOR THE CITY OF AUSTIN'S PROGRAM, WE FOLLOW THE FEDERAL DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION REGULATIONS FOR DRUG TESTING.

AND SO CERTAINLY, UM, THIS PROCESS IS FOR TRANSPORTATION RELATED TYPE JOBS, UM, WHICH INCLUDES SEVERAL DIFFERENT TYPES OF WORK.

AND THIS IS FOR OUR KIMONO, OUR COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLES.

SO THOSE WHO ARE DRIVING, UH, DRIVING ON THE ROAD, BUT ALSO WHO, UH, WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MANAGEMENT OF HEAVY EQUIPMENT ARE UNDER THIS FEDERAL GUIDELINE.

UM, THESE, THESE REGULATIONS DO APPLY TO OUR REGULAR EMPLOYEES.

UM, ANY TEMPORARY EMPLOYEES IN THESE KEY POSITIONS, UH, CONTRACT EMPLOYEES ARE ALSO INCLUDED.

UM, BUT SWORN PERSONNEL ARE TYPICALLY EXEMPTED AND THEY HAVE THEIR OWN SEPARATE PROCESSES.

SO TODAY, AS I GO THROUGH THIS PORTION OF THE PRESENTATION, THIS ONLY RELATES TO THOSE NON-SWORN, UH, STAFF MEMBERS.

UM, AND AS WE LOOK AT THIS B 10 DEPARTMENTS THAT, UM, CURRENTLY FALL UNDER OUR SYSTEM, BASED ON THEIR JOBS AND RESPONSIBILITIES INCLUDE THE AUSTIN ENERGY AVIATION LIBRARY AND THE OTHER DEPARTMENTS THAT YOU SEE LISTED FOR YOU, I WILL NOTE THAT THE TYPES OF JOBS THAT ARE INCLUDED THIS IN THIS OF JOB TITLES INCLUDE OUR AIR OPERATORS, PIPELINE, TECHNICIANS, DISTRIBUTION, ELECTRICIANS, THOSE TYPES OF POSITIONS.

AND SO THOSE ARE THE KINDS OF JOBS WITHIN THOSE DEPARTMENTS THAT ARE COVERED.

THE TYPES OF TESTS THAT WE DO WITH HUMAN RESOURCES INCLUDE PREEMPLOYMENT, UM, POST ACCIDENT.

SO EVERY TIME, UM, THE EMPLOYEES THAT ARE COVERED UNDER THIS REGULATION GET INTO ANY TYPE OF ACCIDENT, UM, THERE IS AN IMMEDIATE TEST DONE POST ACCIDENT.

UM, WE DO HAVE A RANDOM PROCESS THAT'S SET UP.

SO WE DO DO RANDOM TESTING ON A MONTHLY BASIS, REASONABLE SUSPICION, WHY NOT DONE AUSTIN? OFTEN THE REGIONAL SUSPICION, A SUSPICION, UM, IS BASED ON SOME KEY CHARACTERISTICS THAT TRAIN STAFF WILL THEN IDENTIFY TO SEE IF THAT PERSON'S, UM, BEHAVIOR AND DISPOSITION SUGGESTS THAT A, A TEST NEEDS TO BE GIVEN.

AND OF COURSE, THOSE WHO ARE COMING BACK FROM, UM, OR TO, TO RETURN TO DUTY.

AND SO THOSE ARE THE TYPES OF TESTS THAT WE DO ON NON-SWORN STAFF, BASED ON THE FEDERAL DEPARTMENT, TRANSPORTATION RULING, THE TASKS THAT WE COMPLETE.

UM, AND THEN AGAIN, LET ME JUST NOTE THAT, BECAUSE THIS IS A FEDERAL, UM, REGULATION, THE NO STATE OR MUNICIPAL LAW, OR A GOVERNANCE WOULD PREEMPT US FROM CONDUCT CONTINUING THIS LEVEL OF TEST ON THOSE EMPLOYEES WHO QUALIFY IN THESE LEVELS.

SO WE DO TEST FOR MARIJUANA.

UM, WE DO TEST FOR COCAINE AND FILAMENTS AND PCP AND OPIOIDS.

I WOULD JUST KNOW, AS, AS I CLOSE OUT ON THIS SIDE, THERE ARE, THERE HAVE BEEN SOME POTENTIAL QUESTIONS AS TO WHETHER OR NOT, UH, WE HAVE THE CAPACITY TO REALLY UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN, UM, THE HEMP-BASED, UM, LEVELS AND THOSE OF MARIJUANA BASED.

AND UNFORTUNATELY, AS OUR, UM, AS WE DO OUR TESTING, UM, WE DON'T REALLY HAVE THE COMPACITY, UM, TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE, UM, BECAUSE THC IS BOTH IN BOTH, IT DIFFERS ONLY IN QUANTITY, NOT COMPOSITION.

SO THERE'S REALLY NO LABORATORY OR REGULATORY MEANS TO SEGREGATE MARIJUANA POSITIVE FROM HEMP POSITIVES.

UM, THERE IS ONLY THE THC POSITIVE UNDER THE FEDERAL TESTING PROGRAM.

SO I DID WANT TO BRING SOME CLARITY TO THAT PIECE IN CASE THERE WERE SOME QUESTIONS IN TERMS OF OUR CAPACITY TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THE TWO IN OUR CURRENT TESTING.

UM, AND THAT KIND OF COVERS THE INFORMATION FROM THE HRD SIDE.

THANK YOU, DIRECTOR HAZE, YOU SEE MARIANNA, WAS THERE ANYBODY ELSE WHO WAS GOING TO PRESENT FOR US OR, UH, GOOD AFTERNOON COUNCIL MEMBERS, COMMITTEE MEMBERS, MAYOR PRO TEMP.

THIS IS A CHIEF JOEL BAKER FROM THE AUSTIN FIRE DEPARTMENT.

I, ONE THING ABOUT THE TIC AND DRUG TESTING, WE HAVE A COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT IS ARTICLE 24, IT'S SPELLED OUT DRUG TESTING AND WHAT IT MEANS, AND THE SUBMISSION OF USE USING THE URINE, UM, OF FIREFIGHTERS DO THE CHEMICAL ANALYSIS, THE TESTING, BUT ANY TYPE OF PROHIBITED SUBSTANCE

[01:35:01]

USES.

AND THIS IS REGULATED BY THE CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATION, 40 87, BUT EASTERN STROKE THAT THE HRD DISCUSSED IT HAVE A RECIPIENT LEVEL THAT WE TEST FOR.

AND IT IS IN LINE WITH THE DEPARTMENT POLICY, THE ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY, UH, THAT EACH MAN WAS AWARE OF.

AND IT SPELLED OUT THE RESULTS ARE THE CONSEQUENCES OF USING ILLEGAL DRUGS AND PRESCRIPTION LAST DRUG.

AND IT WAS SO IMPORTANT TO ME THAT, SO BACK IN MARCH OF 15, 2019, I WAS MADE AWARE OF THAT.

UM, SOME MEMBERS MADE ME AWARE THAT AS A POSSIBILITY THAT SOME OF THE VENDORS OUT THERE, OR THE STORES STOCK THAT MAKE SPORTS DRINKS OR SOME TYPE OF HEALTH DRINKS THAT MAY HAVE CBD OR IN IT.

AND I WASN'T SURE ON HOW TO MEASURE THAT BETWEEN CBD OR OUR TAC.

SO WE PUT A MEMO OUT, IT'S WARN OUR MEMBERS AGAIN ABOUT THE POSSIBLE HAVE IN PLACE TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS THE IMPORTANCE OF MAKE SURE THEY ARE NOT USING ANY FORMS OF DRUGS AND WHAT THE CONSEQUENCES ARE.

THAT'S ALMOST DID I HAVE THANK YOU.

CHANCE MEMBERS, MAYOR PRO TIM.

THIS IS, UH, CHIEF OF STAFF, TROY GAY, UM, LIKE THE FIRE DEPARTMENT.

WE ALSO, UH, HAVE THIS PARTICULAR ASPECT IN OUR POLICE CONTRACT.

IT IS UNDER ARTICLE 15, WHICH, UH, ALSO DEFINES THE DEFINITION ALSO AT THE BEGINNING OF SECTION ONE OF ARTICLE 15 IS OFFICERS MAY BE CALLED UPON AND HAZARDOUS SITUATIONS WITHOUT WARNING.

AND THAT IS IMPERATIVE TO THE INTEREST OF THE OFFICERS AND THE PUBLIC TO ENSURE THE OFFICERS ARE NOT SUBSTANCE IMPAIRED.

SO BECAUSE OF THAT, UH, WE, WE DO HAVE BOTH RANDOM AS WELL AS DRUG SCREENING FOR CERTAIN ASSIGNMENTS, SUCH AS ORGANIZED CRIME, UH, OUR SPECIAL DIVISIONS UNIT OR OPERATIONS UNIT THAT SWAT DOD, AS WELL AS OUR PROFESSIONAL, UH, UH, AFFAIRS, UH, DIVISION.

UM, WE ALSO DO, UH, TESTING FOR ALL OF OUR CRITICAL INCIDENTS.

THOSE ARE OFFICER INVOLVED SHOOTINGS, UM, DID WANT TO, UH, I LISTED DOWN HERE THE TYPES OF TESTS THAT ARE DONE, UH, AND WHEN THOSE ARE DONE, THERE'S THE FULL TEST, AS WELL AS THE RANDOM DRUG TEST, THE FIVE PANEL, AND THEN THE FULL FIVE PANEL, WHICH HAS SOME ADDITIONALS.

UH, BUT THAT IS ALL THAT WE HAVE REGARDING THIS PARTICULAR, UH, TESTING, UH, AS THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, WE ALSO PUT OUT A MEMO BECAUSE OF THE CONCERNS WITH CBD OIL, UH, SOME OF THAT WHICH IS UNREGULATED AND DOES HAVE, UH, THC.

SO IN REFERENCE TO LETTING OUR EMPLOYEES UNDERSTAND OUR ZERO PALA OR ZERO TOLERANCE TO THE DRUG TESTING, I DID WANT TO POINT OUT IS THAT IN OUR DRUG TESTING, WHEN IT TALKS ABOUT THE TEST HAVE TO BE CONFIRMED, THERE ARE EMPLOYEES THAT HAVE PRESCRIPTION MEDICINE.

SO THAT IS WHERE WE GET ON THE, UM, ONCE THAT'S CONFIRMED, THAT IS NOT SENT TO OUR DEPARTMENT AS A POSITIVE DRUG TEST RESULT, BUT IT'S THE ONES TO WHERE THEY DO NOT HAVE ANY PRESCRIPTIONS FOR THAT PARTICULAR MEDICATION IN THEIR SYSTEM.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

I APPRECIATE IT.

I'LL PASS IT ONTO A EMS. GOOD AFTERNOON.

MAYOR PRO TEM AND COUNCIL MEMBERS JASPER AROUND AUSTIN, TRAVIS COUNTY, EMS, CHIEF, UM, LIKE THE OTHER DEPARTMENTS ARE ARTICLE 14 AND MEET AND CONFER AGREEMENT TALKS ABOUT FOR THE RANDOM AND POST-ACCIDENT DRUG TESTING THAT'LL OCCUR.

WE ALSO HAVE A REASONABLE SUSPICION AND WE FOLLOWED DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION, 49 CFR 40 87, WHICH REALLY CALLS OUT THE, UM, LABORATORY LEVELS, UM, ON THE FIVE, UH, SUBSTANCES ARE BEING TESTED FOR WHICH I LIST AT THE BOTTOM IT'S MARIJUANA, COCAINE, AMPHETAMINES, OPIOIDS, AND, UH, PCP, OUR DEPARTMENT POLICY, JUST LIKE THE OTHER TWO, UH, AGENCIES, UM, TALK ABOUT ZERO TOLERANCE.

AND, UM, IT, UH, AND WHAT CALLS OUT A POSITIVE TEST AS CHIEF GAZE, UH, HAS MENTIONED, UM, IF A MEDIC, UH, HAS A PRESCRIPTION FOR A, UM, UM, SOMETHING THAT SHOWS UP IN THE LABORATORY TESTS AT US, ALL DONE TO THE MEDICAL REVIEW, OFFICER ALBERT ST.

DAVID'S OC HEALTH, WHO IS OUR VENDOR, WE NEVER KNOW OR SEE ANY OF THAT.

AND IT'S, UH, IF THEY HAVE A PRESCRIPTION, THEN IT IS SHOWN AS A NEGATIVE TEST.

AND WE WOULD NEVER KNOW ABOUT ANY OF THAT.

SO TO TRY TO KEEP THE PATIENT CONFIDENTIALITY BETWEEN WHAT THEIR, UM, UM, THEM FOR, BETWEEN THEIR DOCTOR AND THEMSELVES, UH, WE ALSO SENT OUT A MEMO IT'S ABOUT THE SAME TIME AS THE FIRE DEPARTMENT.

I THINK AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT DID ON IT WAS IN RELATING TO THE

[01:40:01]

CBD OIL.

AND BASICALLY THE BUYER BE AWARE BECAUSE AS, UM, OTHERS HAVE NOTED, UH, CBD CAN BE SOLD IN ALL KINDS OF PLACES.

AND IT'S AN N AT THE TIME WAS UNREGULATED.

AND, UM, THERE WAS NO, UH, UH, GUARANTEE OF TO HOW MUCH THC COULD BE IN THOSE PRODUCTS.

SO WE MADE OUR MEMBERS AWARE, THAT'S ALL I HAVE COUNCIL MEMBER THAT CAN KIND OF LEVERAGE THE STAFF BRIEFINGS.

AND SO CERTAINLY WELCOME TO HEAR THE CONVERSATION YOU'D LIKE TO HAVE.

AND IF YOU'D LIKE, WE CAN ALSO TAKE DOWN THE, UH, THE PRESENTATION.

AND I'LL, I'LL, UH, ENTERTAIN QUESTIONS FROM MY COLLEAGUES.

I ACTUALLY, I HAVE FOUR QUESTIONS.

UM, AND SO I WILL DEFER TO MY COLLEAGUES FOR THE MOMENT, BUT I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY IS AWARE OF THE TIME.

IT'S 3:53 PM.

COLLEAGUES.

DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? LOOKS LIKE IT'S ME.

SO UM, FIRST QUESTION IS, WELL, FIRST RESPONDERS HAVE ACCESS TO THIS MEDICINE WITHOUT RISK OF PUNISHMENT.

ACM.

I WONDER IF YOU MIGHT BE THE MOST APPROPRIATE AS OPPOSED TO HAVING EACH, EACH CHIEF RESPOND.

WELL, I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING TO BE EXPLORED.

I THINK WHAT THE CHIEFS HAD DESCRIBED IT, THERE ARE CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES WITH, UH, WHEN PROVIDERS HAVE, UH, AN, UH, UH, PRESCRIPTION, UH, THAT WHEN THEY POP POSITIVE FOR A CERTAIN DRUG, THAT IS A PRESCRIPTION PRESCRIBABLE DRUG, THAT, THAT MAY THEN BE CLASSIFIED AS NOT A VIOLATION, SO TO SPEAK.

UM, I THINK THERE ARE SOME IMPLICATIONS THAT NEED TO BE FURTHER EXPLORED WITH REGARDS TO CREDENTIALING AS AN EXAMPLE, UH, FOR OUR MEDICAL PROVIDERS.

AND I WOULD THINK THAT DEPENDING ON THE NATURE OF THE, OF THE, UM, ILLNESS, THAT'S TRYING TO BE TREATED, BECAUSE AGAIN, AS I'M UNDERSTANDING IT, THOUGH, I DON'T HAVE ALL THE DETAILS THAT A LOW LEVEL THC FOR MEDICAL PURPOSES, FOR CERTAIN PATIENTS, IT COULD BE THAT, UM, THERE IS A PATIENT THAT'S UNDERGOING A SIGNIFICANT, UH, MEDICAL ISSUE THAT WOULD THEN PLACE THEM OUT OF SERVICE, SO TO SPEAK, UH, WHERE PERHAPS OTHER, UM, TREATMENTS CAN BE EXPLORED.

ONE OF WHICH COULD BE LOW LEVEL THC.

UH, BUT AGAIN, I THINK FROM AN OPERATIONAL PERSPECTIVE, WE WOULD HAVE SOME CONCERNS THAT THAT WOULD NEED FURTHER EXPLORATION.

I APPRECIATE THAT.

AND MY HOPE IS, YOU KNOW, I HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS NATIONAL LEAGUE OF LARGE CITIES, UM, CONVENING.

WE MEET A COUPLE OF TIMES A MONTH AND IT'S VERY HELPFUL TO HEAR FROM OTHER COMPARABLY SIZED CITIES WITH SIMILAR CHALLENGES.

SOMETHING THAT I FIND, UM, INTERESTING IS A LOT OF THOSE CITIES ARE IN STATES WHERE MEDICAL MARIJUANA, WHERE MARIJUANA USE RECREATIONAL OR MEDICAL ARE LEGAL, IN WHICH CASE, UM, I JUST, I HOPE THAT WE WILL TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY AS WE ARE DOING THIS EXPLORATION TO TALK TO SOME OF OUR PEER CITIES WHERE IT'S LEGAL AND HOW DO THEY GO ABOUT, AND DO THEY RATHER, UM, TEST FIRST RESPONDERS? UM, MY SECOND QUESTION IS EMS PARTICIPATES IN THE TEXAS COMPASSIONATE USE PROGRAM, ALSO KNOWN AS A TEACUP WHERE AFTER COMPLETING A QUESTIONNAIRE AND A DOCTOR'S DIAGNOSIS, AN EMS EMPLOYEE CAN BE PRESCRIBED MEDICAL THC WITH NO RAMIFICATIONS.

IS THAT CORRECT? AND I BELIEVE THAT'S PROBABLY FOR CHIEF BROWN, CHIEF BRANDON, I THINK IF YOU WOULD PERHAPS ADDRESS THAT FIRST, GO AHEAD.

SO, UM, I DID BE PRESCRIBED, UH, UNDER THE NEW LAW AS IS JUST LAID OUT.

UM, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT CAN BE FULLY DONE YET BECAUSE OF THE, UM, UH, RULES THAT HAVEN'T BEEN CREATED YET, BUT THAT WOULD BE THE PROCESS FOR SOMEBODY TO GO THROUGH IS TO GO TO A TEXAS COMPASSIONATE EAST POSITION, A TEACUP, UH, POSITION AND BEING DIAGNOSED WITH PTSD OR ARE ONE OF THE OTHER AILMENTS.

AND THEN THEY WOULD GO TO A PRESCRIBING PHYSICIAN WHO WOULD ACTUALLY DO THE PRESCRIPTION.

I BELIEVE THAT'S THE PROCESS FOR IT.

I DON'T BELIEVE AS, UM, AS, UH, AS BRANCO LAID OUT EARLIER, THAT IS FULLY ENACTED YET BECAUSE OF THE RULES THAT HAVE TO BE DEVELOPED.

I THINK THAT HOPEFULLY ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION.

YES, IT DOES.

BUT THEN IT ALSO, IT ALSO GIVES ME MORE QUESTIONS, YOU KNOW, RECOGNIZING THAT WE OFTEN PARTICIPATE, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE WE DO HAVE THE PRIVILEGE OF HAVING A LIAISON LIKE MS. FRANCO, UM, WORKING WITH, AND, OR FOR OUR, OUR INTEREST AS A MUNICIPALITY, WE SAW THIS COMING AND I'M JUST, I'M CURIOUS WHY WE, DIDN'T WHY WE DIDN'T PREEMPT THE PREPARATION PROCESS, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S NOT A QUESTION SO MUCH AS AN OBSERVATION.

UM, UH, SO, UH, I THINK YOU ACTUALLY ANSWERED

[01:45:01]

MY SECOND.

WELL, NOT QUITE SO EMS MUST, UM, FOLLOW UP WITH THE DOCTOR AFTER THE FIRST TWO MONTHS AND THEN AFTERWARDS EVERY FOUR MONTHS.

UM, AND I THINK WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS NONE OF THIS IS CURRENTLY, UM, IN PLACE, BUT I DID HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE FREQUENCY THAT EVERY FOUR MONTHS FREQUENCY.

CAN YOU ANSWER THAT QUESTION NOW? OR SHOULD I FOLLOW UP WITH YOU LATER? UM, I BELIEVE WHAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING IS THE EXACT PROCESS WHEN SOMEBODY, UM, EVEN UNDER THE PREVIOUS, UM, REGULATIONS, UH, THAT THEY ARE, THEY HAVE A FOLLOWUP PERIOD OF TWO MONTHS, THEN FOUR MONTHS WHERE THEY HAVE TO GO BACK, UM, EVERY TIME, UH, TO CONTINUE THAT.

AND I, AND SO THE QUESTION IS, CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE RATIONALE BEHIND THE FREQUENCY THAT EVERY FOUR MONTHS FREQUENCY, I BELIEVE THAT'S THE RULES THAT ARE SET UP BY THE HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES.

THAT'S NOT SOMETHING I SET UP OR THE DEPARTMENT OR CITY, IN WHICH CASE, WHO WOULD YOU RECOMMEND? WE TALK TO, TO GET CLARITY THERE? UH, YOU MEAN THERE'S TWO, THE PURPOSE OF THE FREQUENCY OR THE RATIONALE BEHIND THE EVERY FOUR MONTHS FREQUENCY.

WE COULD PROBABLY GO BACK TO HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES IF THAT'S THE APPROPRIATE A BODY THAT CREATED THE RULE AND ASK THAT QUESTION, OR WE CAN SEE WHICH BODY WOULD BE, THAT'D BE HELPFUL.

UM, MY NEXT QUESTION IS CURRENTLY EMS USES YOUR ANALYSIS TEST, WHEREAS A POSITIVE RESULT SHOWS UP AFTER SIX HOURS OF USE RATHER THAN AN ORAL SCREEN, WHICH CAN SCREEN FOR RESULTS AFTER 30 MINUTES OF USE.

WHY IS AUSTIN STILL USING, UM, METHODS THAT CAN BE ALTERED IS THE QUESTION.

AND I GUESS THE, THE ADDITIONAL QUESTION THERE IS, DO OTHER COMPARABLY SIZED CITIES USE THE SAME METHOD, OR ARE WE BEHIND THE MARK? SO I CAN ANSWER THAT QUESTION IN 2018.

WE, UM, THE ASSOCIATION DID BRING FORWARD, UM, THE SWAB TESTING OF THE MOUTH, UH, ORAL SWAB TESTING.

UH, THERE WASN'T ANY OTHER MAJOR CITY OR MISHAP MUNICIPALITY THAT WAS UTILIZING ORAL SWABS AT THE TIME.

UM, WE ONLY FOUND A VERY SMALL MARKET OF, UH, PERSONNEL THAT WERE USING, UH, ORAL SWABS.

AND IT WAS BASICALLY IN, UM, UM, PROBATION TYPE WHERE THEY WERE TESTING, UH, PEOPLE THAT WERE OUT ON PROBATION, UM, AND, OR, UH, DRUGS.

THERE WAS ALSO SOME, UH, NOT THE ABILITY TO TEST FOR EVERYTHING BECAUSE NOT ONLY THE FIVE PANEL TESTS, BUT WE ALSO TEST FOR EVERYTHING THAT WE CARRY THAT'S PRESCRIBED BY THE DOCTOR, UH, DR.

ASCOT, UM, SO THAT WASN'T FULLY AVAILABLE AT THE TIME WE DID THE CONTRACT.

AND SO WE STUCK WITH URINE TESTING INSTEAD OF ORAL SWAB.

WOULD ANYBODY ELSE LIKE TO ELABORATE ON THAT? OKAY.

WELL WITH THAT, THAT WAS THE LAST TIME I QUESTION, UM, YOU, I THOUGHT YOU WERE ASKING ELABORATE ON THAT QUESTION OR JUST ON FURTHER POINTS ON THAT QUESTION.

SO THE WHOLE ITEM, BUT WHAT ABOUT ON THE WHOLE ITEM ITSELF? FEEL FREE.

GO AHEAD.

I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE, JUST BECAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'VE TALKED THROUGH ABOUT MULTIPLE PROGRAMS, SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I HAVE THIS SORT OF SUMMARY, RIGHT? SO WHETHER IT IS UNDER CURRENT PROGRAMS OR THE NEW RULES THAT ARE IN DEVELOPMENT, IF YOU HAVE A PRESCRIPTION AND WE'RE SAYING HERE CLEARLY THAT, THAT THERE IS NO DISCIPLINE ASSOCIATED WITH THAT, BUT THEN THE COUP, BUT THEN IF SOMEONE UNINTENTIONALLY BECAUSE OF AN ENERGY DRINK OR ANYTHING ELSE WINDS UP WITH CBD IN THEIR SYSTEM, YOU'RE SAYING THAT WE'VE, YOU'VE PUT SOMETHING OUT TO YOUR DEPARTMENTS THAT WE, THAT THAT IS ON THE EMPLOYEE, UM, TO, TO GUARD AGAINST.

IS THAT RIGHT? I THINK SO LEGAL CBD, UM, THAT COULD POTENTIALLY STILL BE AN ISSUE.

SO I GUESS IF I COULD JUST SAY BACK TO YOU DIFFERENTLY IN THE, IN THE CASE OF A PRESCRIBED, IF SOMEBODY HAS A PRESCRIPTION FOR LOW-LEVEL THC, I DON'T KNOW NECESSARILY THAT WE DONE THE EXPLORATION OR EVALUATION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IT'S CONSISTENT WITH WHAT WE DO FOR, UH, UM, SOME OF THE OTHER, UH, CONTROLLED DRUGS, WHETHER THAT WOULD BE OKAY.

I MEAN, AGAIN, THIS IS SOMETHING NEW I WOULD WANT TO GO BACK AND MAKE SURE WITH, UM, OUR MEDICAL EXPERTS THAT THERE'S NO ISSUES WITH THAT.

UM, BUT IT WOULD SEEM TO ME THAT PROBABLY AFTER SOME EXPLORATION EXPLORATION, PERHAPS WE WOULD TREAT IT JUST LIKE ANY OTHER DRUG DEBTS, A PRESCRIPTION.

GOT IT.

SO THAT'S JUST NOT DONE YET.

SO THE ANSWER IS NOT DONE YET.

PAINKILLERS, WE SAY THAT THAT IS OKAY BECAUSE YOU HAVE THAT PRESCRIBED, BUT THERE MIGHT BE SOME LIMIT OR SOME WAY TO EVALUATE, TO MAKE SURE THAT IT DOESN'T CAUSE IMPAIRMENT ON THE JOB WITH YOUR LEGAL USE OF THOSE PAINKILLERS, FOR EXAMPLE, SAME SIMILAR ISSUE THAT YOU'RE LOOKING INTO.

UM, THE POINTS BEING, MY, MY SENSE OF WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO EVALUATE IS IF YOU LEGALLY TAKE

[01:50:01]

AND THEN, BUT THEN ON THE ISSUE OF, OF WINDING UP WITH, UM, WITH, WITH SUFFICIENT CBD USE THAT IS LEGAL CURRENTLY, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT OUR EMPLOYEES SHOULD, COULD POTENTIALLY HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT OR, OR JUST NEED TO WATCH OUT FOR.

RIGHT.

AGAIN, I THINK IN THAT, IN TERMS OF, WELL, AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW THAT CBD OIL IS SOMETHING THAT IS PRESCRIBED OR SOMETHING YOU CAN JUST GET.

RIGHT.

UM, SO IF SOMEBODY POPS POSITIVE FOR THC WITHOUT A PRESCRIPTION, CERTAINLY, UH, THAT WOULD BE CAUSE FOR CONCERN AND APPROPRIATE, UH, PROCESSING AS, AS DISCUSSED, DISCUSSED ARE DESCRIBED BY STAFF HERE.

A MONTH IS GENEROUS, HONESTLY.

MY GENERAL TAKE ON THIS IS JUST, THAT IS THAT I THINK IT'S SOMETHING FOR EACH OF OUR DEPARTMENTS TO BE LOOKING AT ONE, JUST SOMEBODY BEING WORRIED AS, AS CHIEF BAKER MENTIONED TO BE LIKE LOOKING THROUGH PRODUCTS THAT THEY COULD JUST PICK UP AT THE STORE AT THIS POINT, I JUST WOULD WANT US TO BE REALLY CAREFUL ABOUT NOT POTENTIALLY LOSING TALENT, THAT WE'VE NURTURED FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME OVER SOMETHING POTENTIALLY UNINTENTIONAL LIKE THAT.

I JUST THINK THAT THAT'S REALLY SOMETHING FOR US TO LOOK AT.

I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S ALSO THE SENTIMENT THAT I WAS GETTING FROM THE MEMBER OF, WITH TIM AND OTHERS.

AND THEN ALSO JUST MAKING SURE THAT THIS ALIGNS THE BEST WE CAN WITH OUR, WITH OUR VALUES.

YOU KNOW, WE WANT FOLKS TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE FIT FOR THE JOB AND, AND READY TO DO THEIR WORK.

AND CERTAINLY IF SOMEBODY IS INHIBITED IN ANY WAY AT WORK, THAT WE HAVE ALL THE TESTING PROTOCOLS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT.

UM, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, BUT JUST AS A, JUST AS A COMMUNITY FOR US, BOTH FOR OUR EMPLOYEES AND THE CIVILIAN SIDE AS DESCRIBED BY DIRECTOR HAYES AND OUR PUBLIC SAFETY EMPLOYEES, YOU KNOW, WE ARE TESTING TO SEE IF SOMEBODY HAD THREE BEERS AT A COOKOUT ON SATURDAY AND WE AREN'T DINGING THEM FOR SOMETHING ON WEDNESDAY OR ON THURSDAY, IF IT HAS NO IMPACT ON, ON, ON THEIR JOB.

SO I THINK THAT'S JUST REALLY SOMETHING FOR US TO LOOK AT, BUT I FEEL LIKE THAT'S A THIRD TIER.

SO TIER ONE, I DO THINK I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO HEAR IF THERE'S ANY MEDICAL REASON, IF SOMEBODY GETS A PRESCRIPTION, WHY WE WOULDN'T TREAT IT, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER PRESCRIPTION THAT SEEMS REALLY CLEAR TO ME, AND I'D BE SURPRISED IF WE HEARD SOMETHING FROM OUR MEDICAL PERSONNEL AS TO NOT TREAT IT LIKE ANY OTHER PRESCRIPTION.

TO ME, THE SECOND BUCKET OF UNINTENTIONALLY CONSUMING, A PERFECTLY LEGAL SUBSTANCE THAT YOU COULD PICK UP AT THE CONVENIENCE.

UM, I WOULD JUST REALLY HATE FOR SOMEBODY TO BE IN W WIND UP GETTING IN TROUBLE FOR SOMETHING THAT THEY MAY NOT HAVE KNOWN ANYTHING ABOUT.

AND THEN IN THIS THIRD TIER, AS IT RELATES TO NON-LEGAL USE, UM, UM, OR POTENTIALLY ILLEGAL USE IN A STATES THAT WHERE IT IS LEGAL AND, AND SOMEBODY GETTING DINGED FOR THAT IS I THINK IT'S JUST SOMETHING FOR US TO BE, BE LOOKING AT.

CAUSE WE'RE NOT LIKE LOOKING OVER TO SEE WHETHER, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY WENT TO COLORADO AND HAD A FEW BEERS OR WENT TO COLORADO AND, AND SMOKED MARIJUANA.

AND SO I JUST THINK THAT THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD JUST CONTINUE TO CONSIDER AS WE HAVE THIS CONVERSATION.

I APPRECIATE THAT LINE OF QUESTIONING.

AND IT, IT BRINGS ME BACK TO, BY A SENTIMENT THAT I WAS GOING TO EXPRESS, WHICH IS CERTAINLY HOPE THAT WE ARE TAKING THE OPPORTUNITY.

AND CERTAINLY NOT JUST, UM, UH, NON-SWORN ALSO, I APPRECIATE THAT DIRECTOR HAYES WAS HERE WITH THIS CAUSE NOT JUST, UM, SWORN, UM, BUT I CERTAINLY HOPE THAT WE TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO THROUGHOUT THE COURSE OF THIS EVOLUTION, ESPECIALLY WITH THIS NEW LEGISLATION IN PLACE, THAT WE ARE GOING TO TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO VERY QUICKLY FIGURE OUT WHAT NEXT STEPS LOOK LIKE AND NOT, IT FEELS LIKE WE'RE REACTING AS OPPOSED TO HAVING BEEN PROACTIVE.

AND THAT ALWAYS WORRIES ME.

I THINK REACTIONARY BEHAVIOR ALMOST ALWAYS LEAVE SOMETHING OUT.

UM, AND SO THAT'S, THAT'S A CONCERN FOR ME.

SO MY HOPE IS THAT, UM, WE CAN HAVE SOME PRETTY CLEARLY DEFINED TIMELINE AS TO, YOU KNOW, AS THIS NEW LEGISLATION IS TAKING EFFECT AND GOING INTO PLACE THAT WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT IS THAT WE INTEND TO DO WITH OUR, UH, CITY OF AUSTIN EMPLOYEES, AS IT PERTAINS TO HOW THIS LEGISLATION MIGHT AFFECT THEIR EMPLOYMENT MAYOR PRO TEMP TO THAT.

DO WE HAVE AN ESTABLISHED, I AGREE WE SHOULD HAVE A TIMELINE, BUT DO WE HAVE ONE AT THIS POINT YET WHEN YOU HAVE TO BE ESTABLISHED, THAT'D BE GREAT TO KNOW.

I JUST GOT A NOTE FROM MY STAFF THAT THERE ARE FOLKS THAT THEY KNOW OF THAT ALREADY HAVE PRESCRIPTIONS IN HAND.

SO IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE ALREADY BEHIND.

SO WE'D, WE'D BE REALLY, IF THAT IS, IF THAT TURNS OUT TO BE THE CASE THAT SOME FOLKS HAVE PRESCRIPTIONS IN HAND TODAY, IT WOULD BE GREAT.

IF WITHIN THE MONTH WE COULD ASK OUR, WE COULD ASK OUR MEDICAL FOLKS, IF THIS IS ANY DIFFERENT THAN PAINKILLERS THAT WE ALLOW FOLKS TO TAKE OR WHATEVER ELSE THAT THEY'RE PRESCRIBED, AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T IMPACT THEM ON THE JOB.

AND I THINK

[01:55:01]

SO YEAH.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COLLEAGUES OR ANY OF THE FOLKS THAT ON THE, ON THE BIG SCREEN, UM, DIRECTOR HAYES, I DO HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU ABOUT HOW THIS POTENTIALLY AFFECTS YOUR POSITION.

AND AGAIN, I'M GOING BACK TO CITIES AND STATES WHERE, UM, CANNABIS CONSUMPTION IS TOTALLY LEGAL.

UM, DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT COMPARATIVELY IT LOOKS LIKE IN THE STATES, YOU KNOW, GIVEN OUR PROHIBITION, I MEAN, WHAT, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE, YOU KNOW, FROM AN HR PERSPECTIVE, ESPECIALLY WITH SOMETHING.

AND I GUESS I'LL BE REALLY CLEAR, ESPECIALLY WITH SOMETHING THAT IS, YOU KNOW, COMES, REMEMBER CASA MADE REFERENCE TO A BEER, BUT LIKE A BEER IS IN YOUR SYSTEM FOR 24 HOURS, YOU KNOW, BUT, UM, CANNABIS CONSUMPTION, YOU KNOW, EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT TECHNICALLY IMPAIRED WITH A URINALYSIS, ESPECIALLY YOU WOULD TEST POSITIVE FOR CANNABIS CONSUMPTION AS OPPOSED TO THE ORAL SWAB, THAT WOULD BE, IT SOUNDS TO ME MORE ACCURATE.

AND SO I'M, I AM A LITTLE CONFUSED AS TO WHY WE DEFER TO THE URINALYSIS, BUT I'M JUST CURIOUS, HAVE YOU HEARD ANYTHING FROM OTHER CITIES FROM AN HR PERSPECTIVE? YES.

AND I'LL DO SOME ADDITIONAL RESEARCH JUST TO MAKE SURE CAN Y'ALL HEAR ME.

YES, MA'AM OKAY.

I'LL DO SOME ADDITIONAL RESEARCH TO MAKE SURE, BUT BECAUSE WE ARE UNDER TITLE 49 OF THE CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS, UM, EVEN IF A S A SPACE MAKES IT LEGAL FROM A STATE PERSPECTIVE, THIS FEDERAL LAW STILL TRUMPS THAT AS IT RELATED, NO PUN INTENDED, AS IT RELATES TO, UM, THE WORK OF REGULAR TEMPORARY CONTRACT EMPLOYEES IN AREAS THAT ARE WORKING IN A COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLE.

SO THIS, THIS LAW DOES NOT CHANGE THOSE FEDERAL REGULATIONS, EVEN IN THOSE SPACES WHERE STATES HAVE LEGALIZED IT.

SO, UM, WE STILL ARE REQUIRED.

AND SO I CAN CHECK WITH DENVER AND OTHER PLACES, BUT IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT IF YOU ARE A COMMERCIAL DRIVER OR A COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLE, AND YOU WERE IN POSITIONS THAT REQUIRE YOU TO DO THAT WORK, YOU ARE STILL SUBJECT TO THESE REGULATIONS AND A PRESCRIPTION FOR THOSE WOULD NOT ALLOW YOU THE OPPORTUNITY TO CONTINUE TO WORK IN THOSE SPACES WITHOUT CONTINUING THE RANDOM TESTING.

SO THOSE EMPLOYEES, IF THEY ARE HAVING TO DO THAT, WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE ADA PROCESS TO MOVE OUT OF THOSE, THOSE POSITIONS TEMPORARILY IN ORDER TO COMPLETE THOSE, THOSE, UH, TERMS OF TREATMENT.

THAT'S VERY HELPFUL COLLEAGUES, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COUNCILMEMBER MEMBERS? I JUST APPRECIATE THE CONVERSATION, EVERYBODY LOOKING INTO IT AND JUST FOR THE PRESS AND OTHER FOLKS WATCHING.

I MEAN, I THINK IT IS JUST IMPORTANT FOR US TO EMPHASIZE.

THIS IS ALSO JUST ABOUT THE HEALTH OF OUR EMPLOYEES.

YOU KNOW, PEOPLE THAT HAVE PTSD, UM, AND YOU KNOW, IT HAS BEEN PROVEN THAT THIS, THIS IS A METHOD IN WHICH WE CAN HELP ADDRESS PEOPLE'S PTSD WITHOUT RELYING ON AS DAMAGING OR AS ADDICTIVE OTHER SUBSTANCES.

UM, AND SO AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT SAYS, YOU KNOW, THIS ISN'T JUST ABOUT RECREATION.

I MEAN, IN PART WE REALLY, IN SOME WAYS ARE TALKING ABOUT THE HEALTH AND WELLNESS OF SOME OF OUR OWN STAFF.

AND MANY OF US KNOW PEOPLE THAT HAVE REALLY SUFFERED FROM ADDICTION TO, UH, OTHER FORMS OF PRESCRIBED DRUGS.

AND SO I THINK THAT THIS IS AN IMPORTANT THING.

STEP THE LEGISLATURE HAS TAKEN, AND WE SHOULD BE THINKING ABOUT, UH, THINKING ABOUT HOW WE DO THE RIGHT THING BY OUR STAFF ON THIS.